Hi all. I was just hoping to get some advice. I'm looking at lotting my Winchester model 70 (post 64) push feed .458
Has anyone done this before or got any helpful pros and cons? Thanks in advance

I've wanted to, for years. It should be an easy do (especially with the model 70)! I need a Lott, like I need another hole in the head! But, it's on the bucket list (the Lott, not the hole in the head)! memtb

Pretty easily done. I'd pull the barrel and rechamber on a lathe myself but have seen it done by hand with no issues( properly polished with 400 grit). The right Mag box and follower dimensions are the biggest issues.Use the rubber band trick to figure out these dimensions. You'll probably need some small feed ramp adjustment and polishing too. Pretty basic stuff!

It's an easy conversion. Besides rechambering which could be even be done with a T handle by hand, you need to shorten the bolt stop to allow the bolt to come
back farther and either cut out the mag-box spacer or get one from a .375 or STW. You should probably get a .375 follower, but you could try your old one and see what happens. It'll probably be fine, but followers are cheap and available. Ditto for the box.

PG, welcome to AR...lots of good info here. The gain to convert from 458 Win Mag to Lott is much less now than it used to be. With modern ammunition and powders, the 458 Win Mag is now what it should have been at the beginning...don't know if the conversion is worth the hassle.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The gain to convert from 458 Win Mag to Lott is much less now than it used to be. With modern ammunition and powders, the 458 Win Mag is now what it should have been at the beginning...don't know if the conversion is worth the hassle.

100% agree with Jon, with modern powders you can get 2150fps out of a 22" barrel with a 500 grain bullet without compressed loads with some of the AA powders.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The gain to convert from 458 Win Mag to Lott is much less now than it used to be. With modern ammunition and powders, the 458 Win Mag is now what it should have been at the beginning...don't know if the conversion is worth the hassle.

100% agree with Jon, with modern powders you can get 2150fps out of a 22" barrel with a 500 grain bullet without compressed loads with some of the AA powders.

I also agree. There is nothing at all wrong with the standard .458WM. All the past horror stories that plague the round are just that - ancient history.

I disagree with the above post that there is little to gain between the Win Mag and the Lott "with modern ammunition and powders". There is still plenty to gain- it's just that the performance of both has been increased. the initial goal of Winchester was to get elephant gun performance out of the standard length case. doing so resulted in compressing powders to the point that the powder became a solid. It would have been better for Winchester had they accepted a little less performance- going with a 480 gr bullet would have allowed the >2000 fps with only slightly less bullet and no problems with compressed powder. the newer powders generate the pressures needed without excessive compression, so the Win Mag works as originally designed; but the same things work for the Lott, making it a stronger cartridge- if you want another 200 fps with a 500 gr bullet, go with the Lott; but I don't know if most of the animals that would be shot with one or the other are able to determine the difference.

I did it to mine 27 years ago because I just had to have a Lott. The recoil increase was noticeable and made the rifle go from fun to "10 rounds a day." At the time dies were custom and $$$$$$ but that is not an issue now. Lott ammo was great as far as feeding and accuracy but surprisingly Win Mag ammo would get caught up from time to time feeding and accuracy with the win mag went to pot. I did it after reading all the articles by Jack Lott in Guns and Ammo and felt I "needed" interchangeability of ammo and of course 200FPS more on those 500gr Hornadys but after spending all the money I wished I hadn't. I still have the gun and never use it. I have since bought 2 of the same vintage win mags because I liked it so much before I Lotted it. I also bought 2 CRF Winchesters in Win mag but I like the style of the old supergrades better. For the Lott I use now I bought a Ruger RSM and have another on its way to me now. If the 200 FPS really matters I say sell the win mag and buy a purpose built Lott. There is a great one in the classifieds now.

Matthew

I don't mean to "wet in anyone's Wheaties" this morning, but, you don't "always" have to load the Lott to the maximum!!!! Down load it, shoot it, learn it!!! Most handgunners down load their magnums for "pleasurable" practice. The more you shoot it, the better you are when you need it! JMHO. memtb

The Lott is far superior.I would shoot until the barrel wares out on the 458WM then I would get a controlled round feed Lott.

I tried to rationalize keeping my second 458 win (I never learn haha) as is, but I like the option of loading the new fancy 500 gr. monolithic solids by north fork and CEB too much.


Those 1.5"+ pills would take up too much powder space in a 458 win case for my goal of 2150 fps with decent pressure.

If I were going to upgrade a 458WinMag to Lott levels, I would choose the 458 Accurate Reloading. It's a nice compact cartridge and only bettered by going to the Rigby-class head size (.590"). The 458 AccRel is probably sufficient for most African applications. 450grains at 2400-2450fps would be pretty nice.

The Lott is an easy conversion, consider the .450'Ackley it's a Better round and only slightly more involved than the Lott. A 500 gr bullet at 2400 Fps has a much more dramatic effect on buff! Been there done that! Can't recommend the Ackley highly enough! Easy to shoot, easy to reload for etc.Deadly accurate and just flat pounds buff!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
The Lott is an easy conversion, consider the .450'Ackley it's a Better round and only slightly more involved than the Lott. A 500 gr bullet at 2400 Fps has a much more dramatic effect on buff! Been there done that! Can't recommend the Ackley highly enough! Easy to shoot, easy to reload for etc.Deadly accurate and just flat pounds buff!

I have been interested in the Ackley version, but I have been somewhat apprehensive due to the minimal taper in the case. Ever any issues with sticky extraction?

I have taken several elephants with each of these calibers. The 458 Win. works just fine. I got the Lott to use the 550 grain Woodleigh solid which is too long to allow decent velocities in the Win. The 550 grain bullet at 2,150 fps, is a huge leap up in penetration and shock power from the 500 grain bullet in the Lott.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
I have taken several elephants with each of these calibers. The 458 Win. works just fine. I got the Lott to use the 550 grain Woodleigh solid which is too long to allow decent velocities in the Win. The 550 grain bullet at 2,150 fps, is a huge leap up in penetration and shock power from the 500 grain bullet in the Lott.

465H&H

I don't see any difference in penetration among a solid 500gr at 2300fps and a 550gr at 2150fps.
You might want to look at the energy charts.Best to shoot which is more accurate in your rifle.

The ackley at full tilt boogie ( 500 great 2400 fps) extracts flawlessly. No issues there. It's a great cartridge.

The 458 AccRel has a little over two grains more capacity than the Ackley and a little over 6 six grains more than the Lott, while the Ackley is a bit shy of 4 grains more than the Lott.

At 100 grain levels those differences are pretty negligible when it comes to hunting. The biggest difference will come from the particular barrel of the particular rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
The gain to convert from 458 Win Mag to Lott is much less now than it used to be. With modern ammunition and powders, the 458 Win Mag is now what it should have been at the beginning...don't know if the conversion is worth the hassle.

100% agree with Jon, with modern powders you can get 2150fps out of a 22" barrel with a 500 grain bullet without compressed loads with some of the AA powders.

I also agree. There is nothing at all wrong with the standard .458WM. All the past horror stories that plague the round are just that - ancient history.

+3

As usual, we are getting off topic with comments that are related to, but not actually germane to your question. Welcome to AR! I've only owned a 458 Win Ruger 77. Having read Phil Shoemaker on the 458 Win vs Lott, I'm in the camp that thinks the Lott is superfluous. Extra recoil, extra bolt travel, extra recoil- Oh, and did I mention extra recoil? Call me a wuss, but the 458 Win is about all I can stand. Have fun with your Lott, though. As has been said, Shorten bolt stop and remove spacer should be all you need. I doubt you'll need a new follower.

If you HANDLOAD there is nothing wrong with the .458 Win. and results will be satisfactory. but the Ackley is a better round than the Lott in many ways and my preference, but the Lott is a commercial round and may suit some better, Its a win win as it is now but whatever you decide is a winner..Its just whatever blows yer skirt up!! its going to work.