Winslow Arms Custom Rifle - Brevex Magnum Mauser 378 Wby Mag

Hello folks.

I thought to share my new accquision here on this forum also.

I have been collecting Brevex Magnum Mauser Rifles for a while and I have just added another to my collection. And this one is a real Beauty.

It is a Winslow Arms Company Custom Commander Model with a Bushmaster Stock. It is chambered in 378 Weatherby Magnum caliber, and it is built on a Brevex Magnum Mauser action.

This rifle was built in early 1965, Winslow's 2nd year in business. A large magnum caliber like the 378 Wby Mag required a large magnum action, hence the Brevex was used. During the early years of Weatherby's production of their 378 Wby Mag chambering, they used some Brevex Magnum Mauser actions right up until the time that they built their own Magnum action, the Mark V.

A study of the Winslow Arms production records shows that only "one" rifle was built in 378 Weatherby Magnum caliber; and only "one" rifle was built on a Brevex Magnum Mauser action. Given this fact, it is possible that Winslow Arms acquired this as a barreled action direct from Roy Weatherby.

This makes this Winslow rifle a double "one-of-a-kind" ...... a "one-of-a-kind" caliber, built on a "one-of-a-kind" action.

This Winslow rifle is a rather plain version as compared to most other Custom Winslow rifles of the day. It is a Commander Model and it was available only with a Bushmaster stock, rather than the fancier Plainsmaster stock. It was the Plainsmaster stock that had the sweeping radical features of the wide forend, the oversize flared grip cap, and the raking comb. The Bushmaster by comparison has a more traditional look, similar that of a standard Weatherby rifle. Still very fancy, but not "over-the-top" like most of the other Winslow rifles.

This rifle was also a Model "A" which indicated no fancy checkering, and no fancy inlays. The rifle has only an ivory inlay diamond in the bottom of the rosewood grip cap, and an ivory Winslow Crest inlay in the bottom of the rosewood tipped forend. The 4-panel skip-line checkering is a slightly fancier variation of a lighting pattern.

The rifle is topped with a German made Weatherby 2-7 scope and weighs in at 10 pounds 6 ounces, empty. When loaded, it brings the weight up to 10-3/4 pounds.

Production records and the registration card indicate that the rifle was ordered/built in early 1965 and purchased on August 30th of that year by a man in Long Beach, California. It was purchased direct from Winslow Arms, Venice, Florida, and not through a dealer. Direct sales were not uncommon as dealer sales were not required until after the gun-control-act of 1968.

When examining the action, you can see the details of the Brevex design, gas port hole, bullet nose clearance groove, things that I noticed in the rifle's internet listing. The listing made no mention of it being a Brevex Magnum Mauser action. This is the 6th time I've found a Brevex that was unknown to the seller. The bottom of the action also stamped with the typical "M400" action designation, the Brevex "No. 353" action serial number, and the "BV" BreVex logo stamp. The action has a Sportsman M98-FNB adjustable trigger by FN.

The action is marked with the Winslow Arms Co. Trade Mark and the serial number. The bottom of the barrel is marked with Winslow's assembly number and the caliber. The side of the barrel is also marked with the caliber.

As you can see in the last picture, Brevex Magnum Mauser Actions were built in a wide variety of rifles.

Your comments are most welcome.

Also a .378. I'm unsure of the builder, but it is M400 serial #440 as I recall.

So, Leonard Mews stocked the one rifle...?

Hello analog_peninsula

Thanks for the reply.

That's a nice looking rifle. The stock looks like an Anthony Guymon, from Bremerton, Washington. They built a lot of Custom rifles in the 1950's - 1970's. They also sold the stocks separately. Let me know when you are ready to give that rifle a new home.



Hello Idaho Sharpshooter

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, it was built by Leonard Mews - see this link

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=0&page=1#Post266082

Nice, a rarity with collector appeal, and so "LBJ sixties" nostalgic. A good thing from the "bad old days."
My how times have changed, to the "bad new days." Now a CRF 378 Weatherby is as common as this re-chamber of a .375 H&H CZ 550 Magnum,
complete with Aagaard crossbolts which are also a good excuse for re-stocking with the "Aramid" uber stock:





I am struggling here for a pun about the good, the bad, and the ugly, but the pictures are worth thousands of words, and can speak for themselves ...

NRA Life Benefactor

How's the recoil with that hogback stock, and the obtuse pad angle?

I find them pretty ugly

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:
How's the recoil with that hogback stock, and the obtuse pad angle?

The hogback is very similar to the Weatherby Mark V Monte Carlo, if you will compare.
The pitch of the butt is not bad, and the rifle weighs 10 pounds and 10 ounces as shown, scoped and not loaded.
It will be 11 pounds exactly with 4 rounds of 378 Weatherby along for the weigh-in.
It is so gentle in recoil that I would never in my weakest moment need a muzzle brake.
Recoil of the 378 Weatherby has been greatly exaggerated by many.

The CZ barrel is about a No. 4 sporter contour plus the integral barrel stuff and chunk-of-steel F block in the forearm.
It is too heavy for a .375 H&H, and too heavy for even a .375 Wby, it was begging to become a 378 Wby.

What is the usual Wby Mark V barrel contour for a 378 Wby? No. 3 sporter?

quote:

What is the usual Wby Mark V barrel contour for a 378 Wby? No. 3 sporter?

Wby contours don't match any barrel mfrs numbers that I know of. The Wby #4 is usually for the .460 only. The #3 for .378 and lighter big Magnums. I've never measured one but they are fat enough to be stiff enough to be accurate. Your set-up here seems well thought out and balanced. 11 lbs is plenty for a .378.

each to his/her own

quote:

Originally posted by Goldeneye:
each to his/her own

I don't judge the previous owner's taste. They are what they are. I'm just glad to have the good fortune to find and own such fine rifles from the past.

Yes, that's a piece of history, from the days of Roy Weatherby, Fred Wells, Harry Lawson, A-Square, and Fred Pachmeyr. That's what we liked in our high-end rifles at that time.

Hello Biebs,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, that's what an "old-timer" like me thought a "custom" rifle was suppose to look like back then. When you pulled it out of the gun case at the range, all the shooters would flock around to see it.

Even though some look wild and wacky by today's standards, they are truly Gun History, and I love them all equally.

By the way - I shot the 378 Wby Mag today. Holy Crap! It really lets you know its a MAGNUM ! !

I own lots of Magnums from 264 up to 460 ... and a lot of others that don't have belts like the the Gibbs, and Rigbys, and Nitro Express' from 400 to 600.

None have such a distinctive recoil. The 378 is in a class of its own. I like it.

If you look at the ballistics of the 378 Wby, it's an incredible cartridge....like shooting a 22-250 but with 270gr bullets! I'm waiting on a similar rifle, an HS Precision in 375 RUM. I'm planning on using it in Zambia in 2016 with 260gr Accubonds or 250gr TSXs for Eland and Sable at longer ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
I don't judge the previous owner's taste. They are what they are. I'm just glad to have the good fortune to find and own such fine rifles from the past.

buckstix,

You are truly a riflecrank in the best sense of the meaning.
Your photography also has the slick look of high production value like meant for a book.
When are the masses going to get to buy that book?

Now a pause in the history and aesthetics for the riflecrankery of recoil which you thought was "in a class of its own" from this 378 Weatherby rifle of yours?
Got your attention? You the 600-Nitro-Express-shooter?

I gotta run some recoil numbers ... then blame the stock fit (like everybody else does) if nothing remarkable comes from the numbers.

Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor

Hello Biebs,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I like it. I've been testing with some reduced loads with 71.0g AA5744 and a 300g Sierra SPBT. Measured velocities of 2655 fps gave tolerable recoil from this rifle's muzzle-braked 26" barrel.



Hello RIP,

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the photographic compliments. I'm a published writer that discovered long ago that if you have good photographs, publishers will always buy your articles. (no matter how poorly they are written) Publishers love to re-write, but can't do a thing if you have bad photos.

As far as recoil goes ... absolute recoil energy numbers can fool you. You must also consider the recoil velocity.

An example I use is ... if somone hits you in the chest with a hard thrown 20 pound Medicine Ball, you'll absorb a lot of energy. However, if someone hits you in the chest with a hard swung 2 pound baseball bat, its going to hurt you, even though it may have less total energy.

It's the old saying .. "push" vs "kick" .. and the 378 has a very "sharp" kick.

Now, having said that, recoil is something that you get used to.

And as one poster says, "Recoil isn't a factor when the Tiger jumps onto the Elephant's back."

I remember looking at pictures of the Winslows in the gun digest back interesting to see one again

Hello p dog shooter,

Thanks for the reply.

If you like looking at Winslows, here are 6 that I had about 3 years ago.

I actually stopped collecting Winslows, but bought this one because I identified it as a Brevex action. Only after researching it did I discover how very, very rare it was. The only Brevex Winslow, and only 378 Wby Mag caliber Winslow.


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Since we are showing fancy rifles this stuff will take the cake. Warning: Mauser type people should not look.

Scroll to the top of the thread.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=899107281#899107281

"During the early years of Weatherby's production of their 378 Wby Mag chambering, they used Brevex Magnum Mauser actions exclusively right up until the time that they built their own Magnum action, the Mark V."
_________________________________________

I did in fact have a Southgate Weatherby in 378Wby built on a Schultz and Larsen action. This was a 3 digit sn 6xx. Phone call to Wby said that the gun was built about 1956-7. With the old style B&L mounts and Balvar 8 scope the recoil would break the screws in the mount. Not my most favorite gun from the bench.

Hello Michael McGuire,

Thanks for the reply.

Nice.



Hello .429

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, checking with my Weatherby contact confirmed that they did use a lot of Schultz & Larsen actions.

buckstix,

Tell us where we can read some of your published work, please. Incognito here?

About those stocks initialed "NH" above.
Are those the initials of the stockmaker? Mr. No Humility?
Their appearance sure grabs me even if I don't want to grab something like that to restock one of my beaters.
That is definitely "Museum-Class" work.
Royalty to rule the gun safe.

About the recoil:

Consider the numbers, for uncomplicated comparison purposes, some generic rifles, weights without scopes, and routine loads, all with same 300-grain generic Hornady 300-grainer.
These barrel lengths, loads, and velocities are all taken from the latest Hornady reloading manual, 9th Ed.:
Our own loads and other manuals are all over the map. This trusted source is as good as anything for rough comparison purpose.

Representative reality here:

.375 H&H
8.5-pound rifle with 24" barrel, Varget 69.3 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2500 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 43.1 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 18.1 fps

.375 Ruger
8.0-pound rifle with 20" barrel, H4350 79.4 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2500 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 49.9 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 20.0 fps

.375 Weatherby
8.5-pound rifle with 24" barrel, H4350 87.1 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2700 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 55.5 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 20.5 fps

.375 RUM
8.5-pound rifle with 26" barrel, H4831 94.8 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2700 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 58.9 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 21.1 fps

378 Weatherby
9.5-pound rifle with 26" barrel, IMR-7828 112 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2900 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 65.1 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 21.0 fps

Weights of rifles are realistic, standard action (Ruger) versus magnum (H&H. .375 Wby, RUM) true magnum action ( 378 Wby) and I own at least one of each to vouch for them.
I have shot all of these and subjectively agree with the objective numbers, using the RCBS recoil calculator, to nearest ounce of rifle weight and nearest grain of powder.

The 378 Weatherby's horrible recoil is a myth it is just a little bit worse than the more efficient cartridges.
It is less efficient, over-bore, and burns too much powder for velocity achieved, yes that makes recoil worse,
but the .375 RUM is a less inefficient cartridge that can get a slightly higher recoil velocity with a lighter rifle, less powder and less velocity, as shown by the Hornady manual's data.
Yes, all the above is realistic, and about as consistent a system of comparison as possible.

OK, 8.5-pound 378 Weatherby:

378 Weatherby
8.5-pound rifle with 26" barrel, IMR-7828 112 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2900 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 72.8 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 23.5 fps

Still no need for a muzzle brake.
Still not in a class of its own for recoil, just Weatherby Mythology, like Beowulf and Grendel, etc.
Mass hysteria?

Hello RIP,

Thanks for the reply,

To address your comments:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Tell us where we can read some of your published work, please.

1979 American Handgunner - "Helms 747 Thunderjet"
1988 Gun Digest - "A Big Bore Bullpup is an Everything Rifle"
1988 Guns Illustrated - "14 Fever, The Tiny Sub-Caliber World"
1988 Handloaders Digest - "Sorting Out Accuracy"
1997 Cartridges of the World 8th Ed - "14-222 Wildcat"
2008 Book - "Van Adestine Knives - Treasures From Little Wolf, Wis"
2008 Knife World - "Van Adestine Knives"
2009 Knife World - "Van Adestine Knives"
2011 Book - "Van Adestine Knives II - More Treasures From Little Wolf, Wis"
2015 Book - "Pete Heath Knives - Treasures From Winneconne, Wis"

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
About those stocks initialed "NH" above.
Are those the initials of the stockmaker?

The initials "N.H." are of Winslow's stockmaker, Nils O. Hultgren. Nils came to the U.S. from Sweden in 1923 and settled in Pennsulvania. Having developed his carving skills on clocks and statues, in the early 1940's he placed ads in the American Rifleman magazine: "Oakleaf Carving at Checkering Prices" - He charged $6.50 to carve large panels of Oakleaves and Acorns around pistol grips and forends for various rifles. I have a Hubalek Ballard Schuetzen rifle with Nils' carving.



After the War, Nils moved to California. Ultimately in the early 1950's he caught the attention of Roy Weatherby and came to his employ. At the time, Leonard Mews was Roy's Premier Stockmaker / Checkerer and now Nils was Roy's Premier Stockmaker / Carver. Many early Weatherby rifles have carving and inlays by Nils. Exactly how long he remained in Weatherby's full-time employ is not exactly known. While in California, he did "Independent" Stockmaking for Weatherby, the O'Brien Rifle Company, Shaws, Flaigs, and other Custom Gun builders of the day, as well as direct to customers. In 1957 he was recongized as "The World's Finest Practitioner of the Art of Wood Carving." (Gil Cummings (The Sentinel, Wednesday, July 24, 1957)

In January, 1965 Nils went to work for Winslow and moved to Venice, Florida. There he redefined and perfected the Art of Inlays using Exotic materials of Ivory, Tortoise Shell, Rhino Horn, Abalone, Pearl, Ebony, etc. The Crouching Tiger inlay shown below is carved of Rhino Horn and bears Nils' signature at the bottom of the inlay below the Tiger's groin. His initials are also found just outside the Oak Leaf border on the Left side. Nils moved back to California in the early 1970's, and again did independent stock carving for other Custom Rifle builders, but he remained Winslow's Full Time Premier Stockmaker, albeit via long distance. It is said that he was so skilled at his art that he could carve a complete Pesentation Grade Winslow Stock in just one day, or several of the lower Grades in the same time.

Although sometimes difficult to find hidden in the work, the Winslow rifle stocks that were carved by Nils Hultgren will have his initials in / around the border of the left grip panel; like the one shown.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The 378 Weatherby's horrible recoil is a myth it is just a little bit worse than the more efficient cartridges.

Yes, this may be true, but who am I to dispel such a long lived legend.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
378 Weatherby
8.5-pound rifle with 26" barrel, IMR-7828 112 grains, 300-grain bullet, MV 2900 fps
Free Recoil Energy: 72.8 ft-lbs
Free Recoil Velocity: 23.5 fps

Still no need for a muzzle brake.

This may also be true, but with the brake installed, this is a much more "fun" rifle to shoot. So far I've put 40 rounds through it, and lived to tell.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Still not in a class of its own for recoil, just Weatherby Mythology...

Yes, and I say again, "Who am I to dispel such a long lived legend."

Another 378 (not mine)

Hello fla3006,

Thanks for the reply.

It looks like a Weatherby Brevex, with a Hultgren inlay on a Mews stock.

Thanks, buckstix, for including all the bio and photos of the work of N.H., Nils O. Hultgren, and the list of your work:

1979 American Handgunner - "Helms 747 Thunderjet"
1988 Gun Digest - "A Big Bore Bullpup is an Everything Rifle"
1988 Guns Illustrated - "14 Fever, The Tiny Sub-Caliber World"
1988 1987 Handloaders Digest - "Sorting Out Accuracy"
1997 Cartridges of the World 8th Ed - "14-222 Wildcat"
2008 Book - "Van Adestine Knives - Treasures From Little Wolf, Wis"
2008 Knife World - "Van Adestine Knives"
2009 Knife World - "Van Adestine Knives"
2011 Book - "Van Adestine Knives II - More Treasures From Little Wolf, Wis"
2015 Book - "Pete Heath Knives - Treasures From Winneconne, Wis"

Some of it is already on my bookshelves.

The 1988 GUN DIGEST, 42nd Annual Edition is very interesting, "A Big-bore Bull Pup is an Everything Rifle." 22 shots of 7mm-08 into just over a half inch at 100 yards! Yep, that deserved to take a first place medal.
The 7mm-08 is a 6.5mm Creedmoor on steroids.

But in pulling the HANDLOADER'S DIGEST off the shelf I noted your article, "Sorting Out Accuracy" in the 11th Ed.
That has a copyright year of 1987, not 1988.

Back to my reading ...

Hello RIP.

Thanks for the reply.

The Handloader's Digest may have a 1987 copyright, but it was the published in 1988.

I still have my Bullpup. And it still shoots 1/2" groups.

On the thread I posted just above (showing the Herb Klein Wby rifles) Fla306 posted:

"Approximately 2200 378s were made on Schultz & Larson actions between 1955-1962. A few 378s & 460s were made on Brevex magnum Mauser actions."

That is amazing. You wonder where all the 378s go (apart from all the ones I have owned ), how many 378s would have been made and sold by Wby in the Mark V.

Hello Michael McGuire,

Thanks for the reply.

OK. ... 2,200 rifles in 378 Wby Mag cal on Schults & Larsen actions in 7 years? I'll have to make a few calls about those numbers.

According to the Gresham Weatherby book, Roy ordered 180 Brevex actions to be used on 378s & 460s prior to the Mark V. According to Weatherby Collector Association, however, only a few Weatherbys made on Brevex actions have surfaced, only 4 460s including Buckstix's shown above to my knowledge. The first prototype completed May 1957 (sn 34??) was taken to Alaska on a bear hunt with Roy Rogers, its whereabouts unknown, second completed November 1957 (sn 3842) is in the Weatherby archives in Atascadero, mine (sn 3887) was delivered to Texas wildcatter Bobby Burns of Wichita Falls December 1957.

Hello fla3006,

Thanks for the reply.

That is a very impressive Weatherby Brevex. Thank you for sharing.

Thanks for the extra pictures.

I remember reading your bull=pup article
Just got my copy down and look at it again

I like your hat in the article wore one just like it for years. then it gave up the ghost. Then about 3 years ago at a 2nd hand store I found another Just like new for 2 bucks.

Hello p dog shooter.

Thanks for the reply.

I'll give you 3 bucks for it.

quote:

I'll give you 3 bucks for it.

The shipping would kill you

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello RIP.

Thanks for the reply.

The Handloader's Digest may have a 1987 copyright, gut it was the published in 1988.

I still have my Bullpup. And it still shoots 1/2" groups.

Is that built with a Remington 788 barreled action?

Hello Fjold,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I built it on a Remington 788 Action, with a Shilen XX Stainless barrel, an Electronic Trigger, and a Myrtlwood stock with Rosewood on all 3 ends.

And I thought Harry Lawson was "out there" :-)

he is. This is just a little bit farther out there.

I lived in South Africa for a stretch back in the early 80's. I had a .378 wthby with me at the time. It shot more then a few baboons at very long range with the 300 grn sierras.
My family member there shot a hartebeest, front on. It hit a little high and passed just under the backbone, it broke almost every joint in the back loose. Otherwise, it killed no better on game then anything else with proper shots.

Hello theback 40,

Thanks for your reply.

What you say is very true. A well placed shot is the key.