It looks like .458WinMag is varmint cartridge in this time, "everybody" building/buying bigger and bigger kickers, there is .577 Tyranno, .600 OK, .700 HE . . .

So my question is, what caliber, (diameter, bullet weight and speed) is maximum for shoulder fired rifle in standing position (I don't mean any RPG or 100 lbs rifles which could be fired only on bench) ???

I belive with .600OK, 700HE etc., we are reaching top limit, or there is place for "hunting rifle" in 20mm Vulcan and more ?


Jiri

Had an opportunity to shoot a 50 BMG from the shoulder in approx. 20-22 lbs single shot rifle, with a break ,and wood stock. Not too bad, but too heavy for a field rifle and to hard to swing with it, almost need sticks.

That for me that is above where I want to be. And the owner doesn't shoot it much either, mostly because the 100-200 yd ranges are no fun.

Dak

reask the question...

without muzzle brakes

Which is your limit in the following weight classes

8-9#

9-11#

11-13#

and up

Mine is ANYTHING 458 win and under in the first, seems to be 500 jeffery in the second, 577 in the third, and I can't carry anything larger than 13#

jeffe

Jiri,

Maximum recoil/weight withstood for a career of hunting is held by the 4 bores, at around 20lbs or more and 150ftlbs of recoil.

This is the same as 600Ok's/700's running at about 2400-2500fps with their respective bullets.



Whether or not you would consider it a recommendation for the average hunter aside, you at least have a historical precedent staying at these levels.



Karl.

I reckon over 13 pounds and the rifle becomes un-weildy, my .585 is to heavy and needs to have some weight trimmed off., then I will just run a 750 gr bullet at 2150-2200 same a s.577 nitro ballistics.

Another way to ask is in ft lb of recoil. Speed is another factor, but I can say I've done 20 rounds of ~50 ft lb from the bench, and that was the limit for me. (Of course, the day before I'd done about the same of ~40 ft lb, along with aome 6.5 Swede, and a bunch of playing around with a 454. I was tuckered to say the least.) But then I shot another 10 off-hand, and although my shoulder had had enough, I could still manage.
But I'd be game to try 70 ft lb, maybe five rounds.
I figure if I can do that a couple times a month I'd take it afield.
Not sure what in the heck I'd hunt that needed that kind of power, though. Even against a buff I'd have a pro at my back, and a 400g .416" would be right at that 50 ft lb.
But then 20# T-Rex firing a 750g .585" @2400 would give you about 100 ft lb of recoil!
Just remember: a Peterbuilt at 14 mph is more of a push than a jab.

Reframed question:

11-13 # No Break, 450 Dak--500 grain at 2450 fps and 500 AHR
--570 grain at 2185 fps in the off-hand position. The bench is not the greatest for me, especially under the roof.

Probably, the max that I can hunt with shooting off-hand.. Have completed a trip with the 450, so no problem there.

Dak

Just shot my 17# 4-bore yesterday. The manly load is 325 gr. of 2F and a 1500 grain ball. It seems to give a sonic crack but, then again the sound could be my brain smashing into the inside of my skull. Anyway, it gives you a headache in a couple of shots. Your glasses tend to be pulled from your face. If you don't pad your shoulder well enough it bruises you badly.

I don't think I can take any more fun than that! It is certaily my upper limit.

Class I's, I can to to 9 lbs. Class II's & III's, I need 10-11 lbs. I have NO interest in any Class IV or, should someone be silly enough to build one, Class V DGR. In my wimpy opinion anything bigger than a .505 Gibbs needs wheels and a lanyard!

I don't know my upper limit. I did shoot 30 -32 rounds of 426 Rigby from the bench one summer. This was the standard 416 Rigby 400g load and my rifle weighs 9 pounds. I felt I did enough shooting to last two weeks and it was three weeks before I went back to the range. It is a toss up which has more recoil, my 458 Win Mag with a 500g bullet or my 416 Rigby. I think they both feel about the same to me. As a good friend of mine put it, "It will get your attention when you pull the trigger!"

That being said, there is something novel about shooting a big boomer. Something is satisfied emotionally that is not satisfied when you fire off 100 or even 200 rounds of anything under 30 caliber. Just as there is something satisfied when you shoot a handgun that is not satisfied when you shoot a rifle.

Oh, wait! Maybe that is why we all buy just one more gun?

RobertD

The limit of recoil is not what you think it is. It's not the BIG PUSH or whack in the shoulder, but the TORQUE. My .600 OK at full power wants to Torque itself out of your supporting hand. The twist is ferocious and damn near uncontrollable. I am physically very strong and it's at my limits.-Rob

Rob,

Since the "BIG PUSH" or "WHACK" isn't an issue, I suggest this as a way to alleviate the "TORQUE". Simply build yourself a double rifle, with opposite hand twists in each barrel, and only DOUBLE FIRE IT! That way the right hand barrel will counter-act the left hand barrel.



Scott

Robgunbuilder :

It is the first time I heard about torque problem. Really interesting. Is there any possible compensation for that (I don't mean double with oposite twists ) ? Maybe some added weight installed as far as possible from rotation axis or muzzle break with "twisted" (sorry for my terminology) exit holes, it could be interesting to design and test that device. But don't forget to use left twist for attaching that muzzle brake or it will screw out self :-)

Jiri

I will ask Mitch to join in if he has time on this one.

Seriously, I noticed the "torque" problem with my M87 shooting custom 875 gr VLD bullets at 2500 fps. This is a 50 BMG for the uninitiated. The brake kills the recoil energy, but does nothing for the "torque", which will literally lift the rifle up onto one of it bipod legs and twist it from your grasp!

Interestingly enough, it wasn't a problem with 750 gr match bullets at 2740 fps.

The rifle weighed in at 25.9 pounds with scope and one round.

Scott

The TORQUE problem is what is currently limiting me in the FCSA .50BMG competitions. I am shooting 800 gr Bore riders and my gun dsepite a 5 inch widfe beavertail forearm torques up on the front rest after each shot. The bore rider approach certainly minimizes the effect as well as the 46 lb weight. However it is limiting the accuracy ( current best group at 1000 yrds is 4.5 inches). I am sure the gun would do better if I could get it to ride the bags better. When Skip Talbot shoots his CYBORG 100 lb plus unlimited gun, I can't see any torque effects. -Rob

Hello fellows this is a very interesting thread. As Karl mentioned the torque of the 900 Grain bullets I fired from my 14 lb. T.Rex would sometimes rip the forend out of my hand and the rifle would lay down on its side. I also found this to be the case with 750 grainers that were fired at velocitys exceeding 2400 FPS. It is hard to say what is the caliber limit for a practical hunting rifle. What is too heavy for one person is just fine for someone else. Recoil is also very subjective, what is unbearable to one person is perfectly bearable to someone else. I found that a muzzle brake had no effect on the torque of the big heavy bullets of my T.rex.

Welcome back Mitch and thanks for the insight!

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Hello fellows this a very interesting thread. As Karl mentioned the torque of the 900 Grain bullets I fired from my 14 lb. T.Rex would sometimes rip the forend out of my hand and the rifle would lay down on its side. I also found this to be the case with 750 grainers that were fired at velocitys exceeding 2400 FPS. It is hard to say what is the caliber limit for a practical hunting rifle. What is too heavy for one person is just fine for someone else. Recoil is also very subjective, what is unbearable to one person is perfectly bearable to someone else.

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