Aside from the pushfeed vs controlled feed issue, in DG rifle which would you value more ?

1. a near new Remington 700

2. a decent looking converted
Springfield A304. No idea who built it.

sorry, I have no more details

Thanks,

Bill
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Bill, if you could pass the collection plate a few more times this Sunday, I could set you up right! :-)

Hi Biebs

Yes I know I spend a lot on guns I don't need! But I've started giving as one who truly believes in miracles. I throw my $$$ upward toward Heaven, and I ONLY use what comes back to earth for guns.

Bill

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That works...you sold me, brother! :-)

Neither, and if I could only use one of those for DG, I'd stay home.

George

Thanks for your opinion George.I know you're very experienced. But in searching AR I find many who like 700s and some who like Springfields too. I suppose their experience is different than yours.

Bill, I feel it more important to know which of the two guns fit you better. Which are you more comfortable with?
If you shoot wither with equal control and they are both to your liking, flip a coin. If you have not held or fired either, get them into your hands and shoot them to see which you are more inclined to use.
Buying them for the experience is a different matter. In my case i buy and shoot lots of different firearms because that is what I like to do. I already have my go-to hunting rifles in the safe never to be sold until I am in the happy hunting grounds.
Frank

First I'd look at the two, and ask to shoot them at a range. If the seller(s) wouldn't agree, then I'd buy neither. If I am going to use a rifle on animals which can kill me when angered (or not), I want to make sure in person how well the rifle works before I purchase it.

At the range, I'd check it for how well the ammo I plan to use functions through the magazine, and how well the brass extracts after firing. I'd also check the rifle's safety mechanism for both "reliable on" and "reliable off", and to make sure the floorplate doesn't fly open when it is fired several times in rapid succession.

In that range session I'd also try to sight it in for me, and get a feel for whether it delivers at least decent field accuracy offhand without me having to perform contortions to shoot it quickly & well.

If both function equally well, and good enough for me to want to buy one or the other, I'd take the modified Springfield. Not because of it being CRF, but because of that great big strong extractor claw.

I've only had one Remington extractor ever fail on me, but that is once too many for a DG rifle, in my opinion.

I know Springfield extractors can fail too, but I have been shooting Springfields for over 60 years and have never had one fail to extract yet. I know that may be pure luck, both as to the Remington failure, and the Springfield record of success, but since there is no way I can establish that for sure, I'd go with what has seemed to work best for me between the two makes.

BTW, my current .458 IS a short-barreled, Mannlicher-stocked 1903 Springfield. My .404 is a push feed, but a South African made Musgrave, not a Remington.

Hello Frank

We are a lot alike.

Hello Canuck

Good advice. Thanks.

While I should stay out of this, most of my rifles are Remington 700's. I can honestly say that the only malfunction I have ever had with a Rem 700 was a brand new custom shop in .458 win that I bought new in the box. The gun had a malfunctioning safety that we(It was a gun from the late 60's or early 70's when they had a run of bad trigger groups) discovered, fortunately for us no one or thing was injured. Replacing the trigger with a Timney solved this problem. Other than that, I have NEVER had any other problem. They are accurate, feed reliably and feel good to me. Understand that it is only my opinion but I have tried 2 of the Winchester Model 70's and cannot for the life of me see what anyone see's in them. Had one in .375 H&H and another in .416 Rem and those were the nastiest barrels that I have ever seen. Shoot 20 rounds and clean them for 4 days. I have used the .416 Rem on several DG hunts with absolutely NO PROBLEMS. Maybe I'm just lucky but they work for me. Just my .02

Hello Pago

I like Remingtons too and have one in 338Rum and one in 375 H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Neither, and if I could only use one of those for DG, I'd stay home.

George

+1

HI Bill,
I have, over the years acquired a modest collection of the old Custom shop models (the 24" heavy barreled with the brown grip cap). And after thousands of rounds through the collection of .375's, .416's, and 458's, I trust my life with them. All of the hoopla over crf over pushfeed........ I actually had a PH tell me that if I had to chamber a round with the rifle upside down, I was screwed. Granted, there have been problems with some of the extractors, although I have never had one, bad trigger/safety groups and such but I don't believe that Remington is the only firearm manufacturer with gremlins. I finally tried a different manufacturer last year in Zim when I took a Ruger in .458 Lott. To me, it's the difference in Fords, Chevrolets, Chryslers.....

Well it sure seems like Rem 700's can be set up to be pretty damn reliable. Seem like some of those military M24's and M40's worked pretty damn well in some pretty bad places! In fact those Rem 700's were easily modified into incredibly reliable and rugged guns! Frankly much better than your typical high end Safari Rifle to be completely honest! Now of course, I realize that the vicissitudes of the TSA, Safari travel, Bakki cruising and a 10 minute stroll into the veld COMPLETELY eclipse the typical military abuse level!
I have a switch barrel rem 700 set-up much like a M40 but chambered in .458 Ackley that I'd put up against ANY Custom Big Bore in a reliability and/or accuracy contest anytime and anywhere. Like throwing the guns off the back of a MOVING truck and seeing which will still work and still shoot to POA. Would it be my first choice for DGR hunting? absolutely not, but would I be worried about it? Absolutely Not! Where the Rem 700 gets into trouble is when folks try and stuff cases into them that exceed the RUM boltface requirements, Don't TIG weld the bolt handle, Don't fix the extractor issue and don't swap triggers. Don't shoot upside down either unless you have practiced( the scope cuts hurt more than usual)! Other than that they can be damn good guns! Utilitarian, but Reliable. Just my 2 -cents. -Rob

Is the Rem in the same caliber that it came from the factory? Obviously if the Springfield is a DG caliber it has been altered. I would look over the Springfield very carefully to make sure it hadn't been "Bubbaed". In general, I would trust a factory rifle over one that had been altered if I didn't know who did the altering. And of course there is no substitute for function checking both rifles which you obviously need to do with any rifle but most especially a DGR.
Controlled Round Feed, Controlled Round Schmeed

My Dad got a 416 rem from the remington custom shop. Brand new out of the box, nice gun but when there are 3 bullets in the mag, as soon as the bolt is opened 2 of them go flying out, so it is like a single shot. I thought it would not be like that since it came from a custom shop.

Joe, A lot depends on the ammunition used. Most bolt rifles require some tweaking to be near 100% reliable, which is a requirement on a DGR.

I've never had problems with Remington-actioned rifles either. I've owned most of the offerings from the Custom Shop. I've found them to be accurate and well-made.

Thank you all who've shared opinions. I've decided to get the Remington. Will I ever be able to hunt a cape buff or grizzly with it? Probably not as I spend $$ on guns not on hunts.I really like owning guns.

It seemed to me that a custom Springfield A304-- whose owner says he never tested its feeding reliability-- might have some problems.

The Remington has a shorter 22" barrel and one of the spendy (to me) custom stocks, and is, of course, from the Remington "Custom Shop"-- which may mean nothing as to reliability.

This Board has a tremendous number of gun and hunting experts. I respect each of you! But what I've discovered-just like religion- opinions vary greatly!

Some would rather give up hunting DG if they only could use a Remington. Others as Saeed, himself, as I understand, has said he would, and does, use Remingtons. I read today here the words of a Safari Guide who bought two M700s for clients to use, and these rifles reliably have killed 120 buffs.

Then too, I wonder if even new controlled feed rifles might also malfunction at times? I once owned a new CRF model 70 which right out of the box had problems.

So thanks again to all; I really appreciate this Board!

Bill
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quote:

Originally posted by Joe Savikataaq Jr:
My Dad got a 416 rem from the remington custom shop. Brand new out of the box, nice gun but when there are 3 bullets in the mag, as soon as the bolt is opened 2 of them go flying out, so it is like a single shot. I thought it would not be like that since it came from a custom shop.

I had a 338 Rum that did the same. The lack of help from Remington and never fixing it swore me off any Rem products for life. And all of my PF and CRF actions ceed reliably hangin upside down in a tree. Recovery from recoil is noticably longer while swinging.

The only push-feed I'd ever use for DG would be a Sako AV (I've owned three of them, and all were accurate and reliable).

I do not despise Remington 700s (I own seven of them), I just don't want to use one on DG (the thought of broken extractors or bolt handles coming off in my hand concern me).

As for the Springfield, a) I do not trust other people's project guns, and b) I am left-handed.

George

If you did not try it out at the range before buying it, I hope it works well when the chips are down. I would say the same regardless what brand or model you chose.

I do not dislike Remingtons. I have over a dozen of them in various chamberings. That's not why I said in my post that IF after testing them both thoroughly at the range they BOTH worked well for me, I would pick the Springfield. I don't care who builds the rifle I shoot, whether Bubba or a "Custom Shop", but I DO care very much that it performs flawlessly in my own hands in actual firing.

If they both perform well, I would pick the make I have had the best experiences with for reliability over the long haul. Then I would pick the Springfield, but CRF has absolutely no bearing for me in that choice. It is the sturdiness of the extractor, not when it engages, that counts with me.

If I was limited to those two rifles for a choice and the Remington actually performed in my tests flawlessly AND better than the Springfield, I would choose the Remington.

I hope your rifle does well for you and you have a lot of fun with it. The make does not matter if it does that.