Anyone out there build One? What did you start with? How do thet rate as a load? Cam one be built on a cz action. I want to start a project after all these great pictures have been posted. Just want something a little different.
Dean

Should be a snap on a CZ550. Consider a 470 MBOGO though. The 450 Rigby is basically a beltless 460 WBY while the 470MBOGO is much more gun although it's still a Wildcat. Kinda a 470NE on steroids! However, with brass now available from Quality Cartridge it's not a problem for you at all. I'd personally start with a CZ550 in .416 Rigby and use a Pac-Nor barrel. Your biggest problem is a stock although they can be had from Mcmillan if you like synthetics or wood from AHR and others. You'll need a second recoil lug in either caliber and sights. Expect this will cost in the $2000-3000 range. If you want more details E-mail me!-Rob-Rob

[ 04-17-2003, 20:02: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

Anything beyond the .450 Rigby is either overkill or a need to show off. If you have that, no problem, each of us chooses his gun for reasons that only have to please us. I, for one, still lust after a .505 Gibbs and there is NO sense in that.

However, if all you want to do is go hunting with a margin of safety, the Rigby is easier. It's a rebore rather than a rebarrel if you start with a 458 Winnie. Install a Tally peep rear and you can leave the front alone. Scopes on DGR's seem unnecessary to me. You will want a new safety! Get the M70 style from PME. Get a new stock from AHR and hone the bejeebers out of the rails. The Rigby has twice before my personal eyes knocked a buffalo DOWN . . . though the second one did get back up again. Great cartridge, thundering power and quiet manageable recoil once you work up to it. Just don't spend any more time on the bench than is needed to sight it in. I use 106 gr of IMR 4350 behind a 500 gr. Hornady. Works great. If I ever get a elephant license, that's what I'm taking.

How much more gun is the .450 Rigby over the .458 lott and what do people feel is more practical/better ??

I load my Lott to 2320 fps with 83 gr of H4895. That is the upper end of what I can get out of my gun. A 450 Rigby can easily get 2400 to 2600 fps with a 500 gr. bullet. The 2400 is just about perfect with fairly low pressure as compared to my Lott loads.

The Lott will normally have a 1 or 2 round advantage as far as magazine capacity is concerned.

A 450 Rigby will have about 250-300 fps on a 450 Lott. Realize that anything over 2400 fps is a waste anyway!. The 450 Rigby is a neat simple conversion of a 458 win, and will feed better than a 460 WBY IMHO.-Rob

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oldsarge:
[QB] "I, for one, still lust after a .505 Gibbs and there is NO sense in that".

I resemble that remark!

Thanks for your answers Ive found a couple of czs so after I finish my next 12 days straight at work Im gonna pick one up. I want to take it to 458 lott or 450 rigby. So I think Ill pick up a 458 win shoot her a bit like that then tear her down and do it over. Thanks again Im sure ill have more questions soon.
Dean

tonto,

I'm almost done with the checkering of my .450 Rigby. Everything else is done. I used a Ruger M77 Magnum action for the basis for my rifle. You can also use the CZ 550 but get the action for the .416 Rigby not the .458 Winchester. It is shorter requiring you to have the action lengthen. An un-needed expense. If you are going to opt for the Lott then also go for an action longer than required for the Winchester round. The action for a .375 H&H works fine for the Lott. This is what everyone warned me of when I built my .450 Rigby. Just one point in favor of the Rigby round is it has less pressure than either the .458 Lott, .450 Dakota or the .460 Weatherby. Were talking 15,000 lbs. less pressure. Lawdog

Are the CZ550 actions in 416 and 458 different lengths?
I was under the impression that they were both "magnum length" and it was just a matter of bolt stop, feed rails, etc.
I've also fantasized about opening one up to 450 Rigby, but it does seem easier/surer to rebarrel than rechamber in this case.
Problem: It's easy to want to rechamber a 458 Win Mag; I get a 416 Rigby in hand, I'm not going to rebarrel it!

I think Lawdog got handed some bad intell. I have never seen any evidence that the .458 CZ is built on a different action from the .416 and the .375. Go find their website to be sure but my Brno 602 is nothing but an older version of the 550 "super mag squarebridge" and it was originally a .458. It may need several things but lengthening isn't one of them.

Hah! I thought so.

http://www.cz-usa.com/_p/pdt.php?id=28

I got the following from Quickload

.450 Rigby, pressure 47,862 psi
.450 Dakota, pressure 59,465 psi
.460 Weatherby, pressure 63,816 psi
.458 Lott, pressure 62,336 psi

And when I looked into the magazine of the CZ .458 although the bolt length was the same the magazine looked to be blocked or something. It appeared to be shorter. I didn't have a way of measuring it at the time. I didn't take the rifle apart as it didn't belong to me. Mainly I was checking out that hogback stock, in my opinion it sucks. Everytime I touched the 550 off it wanted to slide under my arm pit which isn't good when using a scope. The reason I used the Ruger action is that I already have a .416 on one and the action I bought was brand new and it only cost me $500.00. Lawdog

Hi Lawdog
With your quickload program did you put in a 500 grain bullet at 2400fps for the 450 Dakota, 450 Rigby and 460 Weatherby. The numbers you've posted seem to be closer to the max loadings given for each cartridge.
The big Ruger action that your using is a great action and you got a real bargin. My first 470 was built on one and it had to be one of the smoothest feeding actions I've owned. Best of luck with your new rifle.
Take care
Dave

I do not have much reloading experience with the big bore cartridges and I have a srong interest in the 416 and 505, what pressure these can be run and have gather as much published info as available. I ran some comparisons using Quickload, but the answer still does not seem clear to me as to what limits the pressure rating for these large bore cartridges.

What limits the 450 Rigby to only 46862psi? Is it British conservatism, bolt thrust, internal web design, or guts like P.O. Ackely? I thought bolt thrust but I am beginning to think web design, such as Bertram vs Horneber for the 505 (from visual looking into cases).

Any thoughts would be helpful and appreciated.

steve505

[ 04-20-2003, 22:36: Message edited by: steve505 ]

Steve,
Begin with the idea that a .460 Weatherby is a .450 Rigby with a (decorative, functionless, unnecessary, dumb!) belt. Roy then filled it to the brim and compressed the load in the totally unjustified belief that faster is better. It ain't! That's how you get the high pressure in the Weatherby.

Dakota thought that 2300 fps was a little dowdy and that since 2400 was the maximum usable velocity they'd put that much powder in and let it go at that. Recoil's a little stiff but a much better design.

The Rigby is designed to turn out around 6,000 ft. lbs. whether you load a 480 or a 500 grain bullet just so long as you keep the velocity moderate. The pressure is low to avoid any complications with REALLY hot weather and to keep the recoil well within manageable levels. It does take some working up to, but no stupid muzzle break is required so long as you keep the rifle weight at around 10-10.5 lbs.

The internal capacity of the three cartridges is the same! If you put a Weatherby load into a Rigby case you will get Weatherby results (and a kick inna chops a Missouri mule would be proud of.) The reverse is true, too. This isn't about British conservatism, it's about good sense and effectiveness on game, not macho points for surviving a 10 round string off the bench. Still, if you want the baddest possible, fill'er up!

And if you want to try one out, give me a buzz and we'll take mine up to Angeles Shooting Range and you can have a go at it.

[ 04-20-2003, 23:42: Message edited by: Oldsarge ]

Steve has broought up a very interesting point and we've e-mailed back and forth about it some what. The bolt thrust idea is very interesting. Steve worked back pressures in different cartridges with the variable of head size for the cases and and working pressures of the cartridges and the common denominator was bolt thrust. I don't have a program that works any of the calculation out and I don't have the formula. What I'm curious about in respect to bolt thrust is what is the built in safety factor. Is it 200% or 300% or what. If you take for instance the 505 Gibbs with the working pressure specified at lets say 40,000 psi shooting a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps and you now load that same cartridge with a 570 grain bullet at 2350 fps, are you looking at damaging your rifle or setting back the lugs creating headspace problems. Or is the safety margin going to let you follow safe reloading practices which would give signs of over pressure due to chronograph readings or other signs well before there could be any lug set back. I'm thinking the latter. Any information to the contrary.
Take care,
Dave

ALL RIGHT,
THOROUGHLY confused.
Help requested.

IF I have a 458Lott built on an Enfield P14-17 CFR action, what is needed to convert to 450 Rigby, who does the work ????

A couple of CZ550 observations. It will be alot easier to make a 450 Rigby starting with a .416 CZ action than from a .375 action. The only major differences between the CZ550 .416 and .375 are the boltface and extractor. The .416 boltface is already opened up for the .450 Rigby and the extractor will work as is. Based on recent experience, the .375 action rails will also have to be opened way up to feed the 450 Rigby. The ramp work on the .416 action is also slightly different than the .375 and requires less work. This is also true for the .416 action, but not so much metal has to be removed. The magazine box will have to have the two parrallel ribs pressed out and filed smooth. The follower will work as is. The rear bridge of the CZ action should also be opened for positive ejection of spent cases. This is all based on my experience with converting a .375 CZ550 to a 470 MBOGO. All of which applies to a .450 Rigby or 460 WBYor 500 A2 conversion.
To convert a 458 Lott to a Rigby on a 1917 Enfield, youll need a P-14 bolt and some serious Milling of the rails and ramp. The P-14 bolt will provide more metal for the proper control of the cartridge rim. The boltface has to be opened. You'll need a properly dimensioned magazine box and a new follower. I suspect( but have not verified, that a .450 Rigby reamer will completely clean up a 458 Lott chamber. You may need to re-cone the barrel to fit the p-14 bolt which may also involve having to set it back a little( gotta think about this some more). The extractor cut should still be properly positioned, but
the extractor itself will have to be recut for a .450 rigby rim. This is alot tougher than starting with a CZ550.-Rob

470 Mbogo this was for another cartridge but the procedure is identical.



[ 04-22-2003, 21:35: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

Thanks Rodger,
That pretty much sums up what I was thinking.
Safe reloading practices will dictate problems before you run into set back problems.
Thanks again
Dave

oh hell,..
I've got a p14 barrel in 458 lott, just setting there.... anyone got an enfield action, p14, they wanna get rid of?

jeffe