I know his topic has been here before but, I had to ask as Im getting back into big guns. I am falling dearly in love with the .416 Rigby cartridge. I used to have a Ruger #1 Tropical in .375 H&H and found that to be an excellent gun. I liked the recoil and performance However I am looking to go after a buff in the future (my wife says I am having a midlife crisis) I want a .416 Rigby in either CZ or #1 although the Ruger might not be good for buff as it is a single shot. I like the CZ but am not a big fan of the humpback stock and lack of barrel band. (I have had front sling swivels into my hand before on my friends .458 winmag mauser 98. I had for a while a Winchester mod 70 in .375 H&H but in my opinion it seemed cheap. What do you guys think? Also, are there any guys from eastern Ia who like big bores?

Given your criteria, get the CZ. Next, bug the shit out of DAGARON on how to optimize the rifle when you get it. The Ruger No. 1 is a beautiful rifle, but to me, it is a rifle to get after you have your main battery established.

I was just looking around and someone was talking about a new cz coming out in maybe november. Its a .375 with an american style stock. A .375 can take a buff if im not mistaken, and I wouldnt have to worry about getting new wood. Can anyone shed light on this rifle.

DaleA,

I have to ask, why not a Ruger M77 Magnum in .416 Rigby? That's the one I got. I prefer the Ruger bolt action over the CZ, just like the way it feels. I'm with you on that hump back stock they put on the CZ. Every time I fired it, the recoil wanted to push the stock under my arm pit. Not a good idea when using a scope. Also their stock has a reputation for splitting at the back of the action at the grip. Get a Ruger. Lawdog

Can't you order a classic stock on the CZ 550 Magnum in the US? When I bought mine here in Sweden it came with such a stock thats fits me very well. No "hump", just a straight comb with moderate angle.

I was also thinking about the No 1 as an alternative but the downside of a single-shot made me abandon it. Much nicer to have 5 rounds in the mag!

[ 09-01-2003, 03:22: Message edited by: Wachtel ]

LAWDOG, that was the first thing on my mind. But with his criteria which I interpreted to be in $600-$700 range, I rec'd the CZ.

I am a cz nut so thats the way I would swing

While I am a big single shot rifle fan I don't see the appeal of a dangerous game rifle in a single shot. This is a place for a repeater if there ever was one besides military applications and maybe shotguns.

Not to worry! The little swale in the top of the CZ stock is easily removed, and it and the Ruger No1 are both just fine for buffalo! I have owned many German rifles fitted with the typical Germanic HOG BACK stocks, I simply lay a straight edge from the butt plate to the nose of the comb, and removed everything above that line, works perfectly! I have, also, shot Cape Buffalo with No1s and I have not found them to be a drawback. It only takes practice re-loading the single, nothing more! There have been a large amounts of Buffalo, and Elephant killed, over the years, with singleshot Farquharsons, which was one of Frederick Courtenay Selous' favorite rifles, and the Ruger No1 is nothing but a Farquhrson, improved and made form modern steel! 500NITRO, who posts on this site, is a PH in Africa, and his big rifle is a Ruger No1 chambered for 500NE 3.25", and according to PWN is a real bear, but still shootable, so the 416 Rigby should be a pussycat to shoot. I have had several 458 Win Mag Ruger No1s over the years, and I don't find them to be too unruley! I do, however, reccomend a good recoil pad be installed on the No1!

I must agree with LAWDOG,however, on the Ruger 77 Mag chambered for the big Rigby, as a real fine choice, although, much more expensive, still a value for money! In the final analisis it is your call, and any of the rifle mentioned will do the job,with little modification, if you do your job!

[ 09-01-2003, 19:20: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

Try to shoot, or at least handle, a cz before you form an opinion on the "humpback" stock. I assumed I'd replace it when I bought my 375 H&H. As it turns out, it fits me well and is very comfortable. I'm even getting used to the look of it!

I agree with what Citori said, the hogs back also fits me well and I do not mind it's looks. The Hogsback is not quite as pronounced in real life as the pictures on the website would indicate.

Wachtel,

According to the CZ web site and their catalog the only model available in the U.S. in .375 H&H, .416 Rigby and .458 Win. Mag. is their CZ 550 Safari Magnum( I also emailed them and asked if the 550 Safari could be ordered with the American stock design and their answer was "Not at this time"). The stock is what they call a Express rifle stock. This is that "Hogback" stock design. Go to their site at CZ 550 Safari and see for yourself. I tried the CZ 550 Safari Magnum and the Ruger M77 Magnum in .416 Rigby on the same day. That is why I bought the Ruger. Besides if I were to have a problem with the Ruger the company is here in the U.S. and not overseas. Lawdog

How tall are you, and how long are your arms?

I want to be able to shoot a CZ 550 like a 22, all day long. That requires chopping the stock off so the angle is better for recoil, and, installing a muzzle brake.

I don't find the hump to be a problem, actually, the reverse. Nice, consistent place to put my chin.
The stock is a bit big, for me,
so I can afford to chop an inch off the top, and come up with the right ergometrics for my size, 5'11" and 69" arm span.

Should be back soon.
Given the recoil difference, with a brake, and the difference in the 416's wide range, I would go with the CZ 550 in 416 Rigby.

Either that, or a 550 in 458, and blow it out to 458 Lott.

The Lott gives you more bullet options, heavier bullets, but a smaller, higher pressure case. It also gives you 6 in the mag, IIRC, over the 4 in the 416 Rigby.

Pick one...

s

I took a photo of the stock on my CZ 550 Magnum to show you US residents what I'm talking about.



The angle fits me well and I can use both the scope and the open sights without problems.

Socrates,

quote:

---

How tall are you, and how long are your arms?

---

Me? I'm 6' 7.5", 270 lbs.(depending on the time of the year, a bit more around Christmas time) and a arm span of 75". When I fired both the CZ and the Ruger I had to put a slip-on recoil pad on them to compensate. Lawdog

If you hold a couple of extra rounds in your left hand, and practice rapid reloading like old Elmer used to do with his doubles, you will find that a single shot is not as big a handicap as one might think. However, if you lack confidence in this approach, get the bolt-action!

Hi Dale A,

I live in Iowa and love big bores. I have a ruger #1 in 458 lott and a 9.3x 62 CZ550 lux. I also have a 375 H&H model 70 and a 45/70 marlin. I have a 416 rigby CZ magnum standard ordered IT COMES WITH A STRAIGHT STOCK. There are two stock styles available and three models in the magnum calibers. Square Shooters in Davenport, Iowa can help you.

Cole,

It will be interesting to see if the .416 turns out to have a straight stock.

Mac,

On this one, I would have to disagree about the SS versus the magazine. It is physically impossible to blaze away as rapidly with a single shot as it is with a magazine rifle.

Otherwise...

I have a CZ that I reamed out for the Lott, and love it to a point, but it has inherent flaws I'm not excited about. The trigger sucks and there is no after-market available, that I know of. The trigger is too far forward in the trigger guard and the middle finger gets beats to crap.

It is dependent upon one physique, but regardless of what DagaRon says, the large drop and stock angle at the butt produces large muzzle flip (pure physics) which can only be rectified to a degree with a straight comb stock (which I did).

Also, I think the CZ 550 Magnum is overkill for a .375. I would like to see them bring out the American, lighter weight, version in .375, with a straight stock.

[ 09-12-2003, 16:03: Message edited by: Will ]

Will,
A straight combed stock can still have a lot of drop, as Wachtel pictures above. The amount of drop may increase muzzle rise in recoil, correct.

However, you are dead wrong about the pitch of the CZ stock causing muzzle rise, so you better review your physics on this one. I presume that you refer to pitch when you speak of "angle at the butt." Use of standard terminology would also clarify your exposition.

The combination of the pitch and the drop of the CZ stock makes for a smooth and gentle recoil in field shooting with the dear old humpie Lux on a Magnum.

The Lux pitch and drop are very similar to a Weatherby Mark V stock without the garish Monte Carlo angled up toward the sky. Both handle recoil well, which anyone who had real experience with them would know.

Of course the Lux humpie is much more pleasing to the eye than a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe stock. Anyone without a colloquial little mind woud know that.

Many of us with normal anatomy find the fit of the Lux to be just perfect, and an excellent stock for iron sight and scope use.

You better go review your physics now, Will. I was reading physics text books when I was 12 years old. You've got some catching up to do.

Dr. Ron

DagaRon,

That must be that new Kentucky physics.

Dr. Stewart

Will,
Bull shit from a bullshitter is all I can say about your reply. And it takes one to know one, but I speak the truth, the facts, and not some prejudiced opinion. It is called honesty. No BS intended right now, by me. Can't say the same for you.
Aloha

I gotta get this point across. Pay attention Dr. Stewart.

The CZ butt has "pitch down". This is the normal and desirable pitch if the butt pad plane is not pependicular to the bore axis, or zero pitch.

Do not confuse pitch and drop.

With "pitch down" the heel of the butt is farther rearward than the toe of the butt.

When the rifle recoils rearward, the heel is anchored first against the shoulder. Then the toe comes back into the shooter's shoulder, and in the process pitches the muzzle of the rifle downward.

It is "pitch down" because of the downward direction that the buttpad "looks rearward" (if a buttpad had eyes) when the rifle barrel is held horizontal.

"Pitch down" also describes what the butt does to the muzzle in recoil.

"Pitch down" also describes the direction that the muzzle points if the buttpad plane is held vertical.

A rifle or shotgun with a little pitch down also fits the normal shoulder anatomy better and hangs more comfortably when the gun is shouldered.

When I was at a gun shop awhile back there was a CZ Lux .22 caliber that had iron sights but it also had the worst wood I've seen on any CZ rifle. Anyway, I closed my eyes for the fun of it and brought the gun up to my shoulder as if snap shooting a squirrel. That rifle came up as nice as any I've ever put to my shoulder. And if it hadn't had such a horrible chunk of wood for a stock, it probably would have stuck to my fingers; that and the stigmatism attached to the European stock. And the possible misinformation about the muzzle rize on the humpback stock. The ONLY question I have is, "Can one see through a scope properly with the humpback?" If anyone owns a CZ .416 Rigby Safari and has a scope mounted on it I would appreciate some feedback. Dr. DagaRon, I tend to concur with what you have said about the muzzle rize even though I haven't shot a humpback yet. It makes sense though that the muzzle would not rize more than with the straight stock. And surely all the European hunters who have been using the humpback for years can't be wrong. Or can they?? I was waiting until November to get my .416 in the American stock and now I am undecided. Oh well, surely there will be someone out there who will buy both, make a comparison, and let us all know. Later, Mike

I have feel the lux stocks are comfortable and pleasing to the eye. I was forced to try them through economics I admit, but now I like them.

My 9.3x62 wears one as does my .375 and my impending .458 Lott, I also wish my .416 Rigby did, but I WASTED money getting a custom Kevlar/Fibreglass stock made for the price I coul neally have had another cz

The only thing I like about my custom .416 Stock is it's a bit better for bad weather, but otherwise the lux stocks are just fine !!.

Daga, tested my 9.3 loads today and the lux stock makes it a real pussy cat to shoot

I have settled on the speer 270 gr bullet in front of 56 Grains of AR2208 in a Lapua Case & WLR spark.

FourTails,
The humpie works great with low Warne QD rings and the Leupold 2.5X. Perfect. And still excellent with the CZ express sights.

If you want a stock like Wactel's, all you have to do is plane the humpie's comb down to level and refinish the stock.

The Standard stock has been offered all along in the CZ 550 Magnum. It still has the same drop and pitch as the humpie (Lux).

If CZ is making a new stock with zero drop and zero pitch for the 550 Magnum, I will be very surprised, and I wouldn't want it.

I like the humpie best of all for a hard kicker that I want to use a scope and iron sights on.

Now if they will just replace all the C-clips ...

PC,
I still have some factory Norma loads to shoot in my CZ 550 Medium FS, before I start reloading, but I will note your data for future reference.

The 232 grain Vulkan softpoint Norma load averaged 2545 fps (20.5" barrel) and 0.306" group for three shots at 100 yards. No BS. Maybe just luck and compensating errors? The CZ rifle didn't hurt. I will use heavier bullets when I reload.
Aloha

I have 9.3 CZ LUX . I did not care for the angle of the butt stock, so I had the stock trimmed to make it square with the bore. This involved cutting a wedge of wood thicker at the comb to a thin slice at the bottom, then install a nice recoil pad. A DOCTER 3x9 scope is mounted,it has great GERMAN optics, at a reasonable price.
I have a picture of the 416 RIGBY I ordered, it has a straight stock, I was told its a new model for the magnums.

Cole,
The new stock you speak of would indeed be a completely new offering on the CZ 550 Magnum Safari.

I have an ArmTec synthetic stock on one of my CZ's that has zero drop and zero pitch. It works well for recoil handling. This stock works great for scope, but only "gets by" for iron sights.

McMillan and custom walnut stocks I have on other Brno's/CZ's have no more than 1/4" drop at the heel of their straight combs, and pitch is close to zero.These stocks work well for recoil and get by a little better with the iron sights and scope interchangeability.

Most of my CZ's still wear the humpie, my new affectionate term for the Lux, which I find excellent for the factory irons and scopes in low mounts, and dynamically gentle in recoil with field shooting. I won't change them.

If CZ are indeed going to a zero drop, zero pitch, straight-combed stock, then they need to raise the height of the express sights on the factory rifles, if they are to remain as useful.

The humpie Lux with moderate drop and pitch works great for hard kickers using scopes in low mounts, or the excellent CZ express iron sights, for the avearge anatomically normal shooter.

The rub is that big scopes in high mounts are not cool with the humpie. But you can never have everything. The shooter is always dealing with some compromise when he is covering all bases.

Yes, I like zero drop, zero pitch stocks too, but I am aware of the compromises that they involve too.

A picture of the new stock would be interesting.

Took my CZ in .416 Rigby to Africa last year. had it glass bedded before I left. the humb-backed stock works great , have a 3x9 Leuopold on top with CZ rings. Shoots much better than me. Recoil is negligible. Did have the stock shorted a 1/2 inch so it would fit me. First animal I shot with it was a Gemsbok dropped to the shot. 300 measured yards. would buy another in a heart beat. Just don't tell my wife. Mike
"SAFARI" "THE DARK CONTINENT" The words conjure up a mystical world of
exotic animals and places, smoking campfires, danger, solitude, freedom to wander over a land that time has forgotten, where lions roar, to seek your soul that has been lost these many years

Do you guys like the CZ better than a model 70 ?
I like the safety on my model 70`s .I think the LUX stock is neat with a DOCTER German scope - it has style.
Does anyone else make rings for CZ ?

Cole,

I dont own a M70 but own 5 cz's but if it where not cz's it would be M70's & Rugers due to being CRF. I own Ruger 30/06 as well. The cz's IMHO are great value.

I will get an M70 one day probaly a M70 SS .375 H&H as my wet weather big rifle.

But the lux stocks work well and I find them comfortable

Cole,

Talley and Warne both make rings for the CZ. You could also check out American Hunting Rifles, they make custom rifles built on the CZ 550 action. They offer Talley rings as well as CZ rings which they take and modify for strength. They can be found at www.hunting-rifles.com.

Cole,
It is like choosing between your children. I must like the Winchester and CZ about equally since I own 10 of each.

They both have their "compromises" but are interchangeable in my hands. I have no confusion or misfit in going between them.

My collection of bolt action trash varies from straight-out-of-the-box to fully customized as I saw fit along the way. I also own similar numbers of Rugers and Mausers, as CZ and Winchester.

Some even wear milk-jug-plastic stocks, but they won't be changed if they are shooting sub MOA, and are durable, stable, and silent. Function matters more than looks.

A person can be adaptable, and dance with the one he brought.

There is no one best conformation for all chores, PERIOD. Some snobs may think there is, but they are delusional, or at least over emotional.

Here are two easy-to-come-by tools that could handle any chore, and what I would do to make them suit me to grins, plastic and stainless for constant rain, blue and walnut for better weather:

1) Winchester M-70 Classic Stainless .375 H&H: rechambered to .375 Weatherby, in charcoal gray/black plastic factory stock, no change of bedding after rechamber if it still shoots 3/4 MOA as a .375 Weatherby, Pachmayr slip on medium black ventilated pad to bring LOP to 14", trigger adjusted to 3.5#, 8X40 screws on the receiver for scope bases of choice, QD lever rings of choice (medium height), Leupold 2.5X-8X.

2) CZ 550 Magnum Safari in .416 Rigby, with Lux (humpie) stock and no C-clipped nut on the firing pin: glass bed the stock with pillars, and install crossbolts fore and aft of magazine box, QD lever rings of choice (low) and a Leupold 2.5X.

[ 09-18-2003, 22:30: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

I was Asking Dale how tall he is. I found with the CZ stock, I, at 210 and 5'11", 69" arm span, could afford to cut about an inch off the stock to fit me, and straighten the angle on the pad.

The hog back gives me a reference point for
putting my check, and eye, pulling the rifle up quickly. It reminds me of shooting a shotgun.

Works for me, others may differ.

gs

Soc,
I am 5'11", 212#, and have a 73" arm span, fingertip to fingertip. The 14" LOP and the gentle pitch of the humpie (Lux) fit me perfectly, and should even after I lose that thirty pounds that I have been meaning to.

DAGGARON, I like your taste! I shot 2 tons of African game with my mod.70 375H&H matt finish, plastic stock with a 2 1/2 to 8 leopold in QD bases. IT RAINED part of the hunt, got hot then cold the next day. Crazy weather- we got sunburnt ,later wore coats. My rifles did not loose zero. Other rifle `03-A3 `06 with also an ugly plastic stock. Weaver 3x9 (old) scope in Lyman rings.

Daga,

your on the ball mate, that there is my style of rifles

I really do need a stainless synthetic big bore to go with my pretty humpback cz's

Cole and PC,
I see that you suffer the same disease as I. There is no cure.
Cheers!