I was thinking about the muzzle brakes..
Is are they all different in reducing recoil?
I know that weatherby accu brake I think it was will reduce the recoil with 52%. IS that possible?
How much recoil does the muzzle brake on the AHR .600 Overkill take away?? 50% more?

Sorry for my bad english!
//OK

They're all different designs, and different effects. And then you've got the marketing folks who get involved, and different testing and measurement methods by various companies, so one person's 52% on a .300 may NOT be the same as another person's 52% on a 50 BMG, and the same break measured 3 different ways may give 3 different percentages.

It's really a crap-shoot as far as I'm concerned about exactly HOW effective any given break is compared to another one.

I like the ones that look like the sideways pieces of water-pipe with the baffle in the middle welded onto the end of the barrel, but they're not the most attractive things to have dangling off the end of your barrels.

I have a "slim-line" muzzle break on my .300 mag

http://www.alaweb.com/~crowell/pics/coyote02.jpg

and the felt recoil from that .300 is roughly the same as a .223 -- almost none at all, so I'll say 50% drop in recoil - or more - is certainly achievable, but as to individual numbers, it's anyone's guess.

Overkil
I know the following from actual shooting.
A 460 WBY with the pendleton De-Kicker still kicks hard.
A Weatherby muzzle break on a 416 WBY mag makes it just bearable.
A KDF muzzle break on a light weight 300 WBY Mag kicks less than an unbraked Rem Mod 7 in 308.

All the above are LOUD.

A Magna-Ported bbl in 300 Win Mag is plesant to shoot.
A Magna-Ported bbl in 375 H&H is not painful in a light rifle.
The Magna-Ported bbls do not seem any louder than a regular bbl to me. I have no problem shooting them with out ear protection when hunting.

Unless you are going to be shooting a 40mm rifle from the shoulder, they are more trouble than they are worth, IMO! They will not make friends for you in the hunting fields, or at the range!

I shoot a lot of heavy hitters, and I have never seen anything to reccomend them, over a good recoil pad, fixed to the end of a well designed stock, on a rifle with suficient weight for the cartridge being shot! I guess you can tell, from this post, you will not find a rifle in my vualt with a break afixed to it's barrel.

Well you would be mistaken, I actually have two! One is a 16" barrel on a TC Contender, chambered for 411 JDJ, but it was permently mounted to make the super 14 barrel legal with a rifle stock, as much as anything. The other is on a Mauser 98 chambered for, of all things, a 30-06...... This was on the rifle when I traded for it, and I bought it simply to get the action, and will gladly send the threaded brake to anyone who wants it for thier 30 cal barrel!

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
I was thinking about the muzzle brakes..
Is are they all different in reducing recoil?
I know that weatherby accu brake I think it was will reduce the recoil with 52%. IS that possible?
How much recoil does the muzzle brake on the AHR .600 Overkill take away?? 50% more?

Sorry for my bad english!
//OK

Overkill..Muzzle brakes came with my 460 & 378 weatherbys. I have tried them and they do help.
But i choose not to use them. I figure If I cant handle the recoil i should move down in calibre.
took me a 100 rounds to get use to the recoil on my 378 then I was able to adjust to my 460. This is off the bench. good luck.

http://www.weatherby.com/products/performance/accubrake.asp

Overkill,

I am from the no muzzle brake school. Like Mac, I have found that a proper stock, with the correct LOP and with a good pad (Limsaver is my fav) does the job. That being said, the 600 OK is a different beast and one that warrants a brake to be shootable with heavy loads. My main and really only issue (aside from aesthetics) with brakes is their muzzle blast. RGB has stated his design of MB for the 600 doesn't increase SPL much if at all, and I take his word for it. Other designs, like the Vais brake say the same thing and I don't have personal experience to refute it. But, I do know many of the "mainstream" designs are extremely loud and I don't like shooting next to them at the range (with muffs on) much less having them shot next to me in a hunting situation.

I believe for most cartridges a brake is not called for (and I'm including my personal biggest the 458 Lott). The 600 Overkill is one cartridge that calls for a MB, and although I don't know how effective it is (% wise) if it cuts the recoil from 150 ft/lbs to a somewhat more tolerable level I am all for it.

There is one company that posted here months back that says their MB reduces recoil and muzzle raise without increasing the blast. I will look for that link.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
I was thinking about the muzzle brakes..
Is are they all different in reducing recoil?
I know that weatherby accu brake I think it was will reduce the recoil with 52%. IS that possible?
How much recoil does the muzzle brake on the AHR .600 Overkill take away?? 50% more?

Sorry for my bad english!
//OK

Yeah they do reduce recoil but they also increase muzzle blast significantly. Actually many believe they were invented by hearing aid companies to increase sales. Why have something that increases muzzle blast when another item exists that doesn’t increase muzzle blast but still reduces recoil? Mercury recoil inserts work very well without increasing the blast level and they cost less. Lawdog

All three designs I have used work--which is to say, they reduce felt recoil.

Some work better than others. Don't know about the Weatherby. The Answer Products brake is the best I have tried.

Grading muzzlebrakes is very subjective.

The Hart brake screwed onto my 700RemBDL 338-06AI makes shooting 250gr bullets feel like shooting 243 Win varmint rounds.

Conversely, my magna-ported 7600Rem 35 Whelen hardly reduces felt recoil at all. It does reduce muzzle jump, however.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AKA:

I figure If I cant handle the recoil i should move down in calibre.
--------------------------
That's about the BEST advice I've heard here in a long time. Muzzle brakes are an abomination. PHs hate them, they are a nuisance at the range and they cause irreparable damage to hearing. jorge

Muzzel Brakes flat out work. Period! 50 percent reduction in recoil from calibers that burn a lot of powder at high pressure ( like the .600ok) is commonly attained. Look at a M1 Abrams Tank! Do you see a muzzel Brake? The military likes noise ( ie. Shock and awe!) Lower recoil with ANY caliber equals better shooting period! In the field the noise of a rifle with or without a brake is insignificant. I've shot a fair amount of game in my time and know what, the noise of the gun has never even entered my mind. I simply know that my goal is to hit the animal not to minimize the noise I make doing so. Duh! Noise is only a problem at the range and frankly when I'm at the range I like the noise so that the AR15 people move away from me quickly. You can shoot a .600OK without a brake if you want, I guarantee after the first shot you won't hit anything. Me I like hitting things.-Rob

WHY NOT JUST LOAD DOWN A LITTLE AND MAKE THE GUN A LITTLE HEAVIER. IN A MODERN BOLT ACTION SHOOTING AT ONLY 600 NITRO VELOCITY THEN RECOIL IS NOT TOO BAD. SORRY FOR SHOUTING I CAN’T HEAR ANY MORE- TOO MUCH SHOOTING WITH MUZZLEBREAKS!

I don't have anything against muzzle breaks except for a few African PH's don't allow them because of the noise and possible damage to trackers hearing. Also in a Dangerous Game situation the last thing I would want is for my muzzle blast to be funneled back right into my PH's eyes ( who is generally standing in the perfect position for this to happen) rendering him useless and possibly blind. While this is unlikely to happen it seems that Mr Murphy is all too happy to step in at the most inopportune times!

For the range maybe, for hunting no. Especially when there are many cartridges that will kill an Elephant just as dead and don't have this danger... Just my opinion.

Just which African countries don"t allow muzzel brakes? Never heard of that before!Just how many Ele have you hunted?pse post pictures as there are far too many BS artists here who just talk the talk and have never walked the walk. Since I don't know you, I just have to see some facts. By the way I have a .600 NE Heym that is a modern bolt action and it will kick the SNOT out of you at .600NE velocities( guess what no muzzel brake). I'd just love to let you shoot it. Then try The same load in a .600OK with a brake and guess what the difference is? Doesn't take too much brains to figure out!-Rob

I have not hunted elephant, yet. I was just using it as an example of the largest land mammal. I will be going on an ele hunt this summer and if I want to post pictures to share with the community I will, not to prove myself to anyone. Also I don't think that what I wrote implies in any way that I have hunted Elephant.

Also my apologies, I meant to write PH's, not countries.

Then you don't know what your talking about do you! I thought so! Have you ever even really fired a .600NE? You might reconsider your unfortunate decision once a big Zambezi bull puts a full-on .charge on your ass. You'll wish for a M1 Abrams with the biggest muzzel brake in existance. You'll never even hear it go off. Know why? because if you can't shoot accurately enough he'll kill you! Fact!
-Rob

No muzzlebrake on Rob!

Whoa man, I think you have some insecurity issues. I think a 500 will be plenty powerful for any elephant on this planet. Maybe you should learn to shoot and then you won't need such ridiculously large cartridges, or is it something else you are trying to make up for? If it walks like a Troll and talks like a Troll, well then it must be a....

I try my best not to feed trolls so someone is going on the ignore list.

quote:

Originally posted by Overkill from sweden:
I was thinking about the muzzle brakes..
Is are they all different in reducing recoil?

//OK

Muzzle brakes do work. But if you use one, the other hunters will think you are a girlie man.

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Also my apologies, I meant to write PH's, not countries.

Bulldog563, you "DID" write "PHs", not countries! Rod just gets so excited he forgets to read all the words!

Rodthegunbuilder Let me ask you why is it necessary for a person to have hunted elephant to know that many chamberings will kill a elepant just as dead as your 600OK, without all the recoil, and muzzle blast? Any one who can read on this particuler forum can know that without ever even setting foot in Africa. The fixture on the muzzle of the gun on an Abrams tank, is not a muzzle brake, but a flash suppressor, designed to hide the tank's position to avoid return fire, not to reduce recoil, though it may do that as well.

I really don't see where Bulldog563 wrote anything to garner such anger from you. I don't think anyone would deny the fact that if there is a legitamate use for a muzzle brake, somthing like a 600ok would be it. That fact, has nothing to do with the need for such things on ordenary rifles for hunting. You must admit, a 577 double rifle would look a little silly with a pair of Brakes, even if it wouldn't screw up the regulation. With that thought in mind, a 577NE is not a necessity to hunt ele, when a little 450/400NE 3" will absolutely sink his butt into the weeds with a brain shot.

All I'm saying here Rod is, I simply do not understand your anger in this case!

Muzzel brakeswork work fine. I have one on my 338 Ultra that I use when sighting in on the bench but when hunting I take it off and put a thread protector on. I had this thread protector made. It screws on.

I can tell you it is a FACT that quite a few PHs detest muzzle brakes. While they are not illegal by any means, some PHs DO reserve the right to ask you not to bring them. I don't know what a 600 OK is, but I have fired 460 Weatherbys, 500 and 577 NEs WITHOUT MBs. My original post stands.Incidentally, the guns on M-1 tanks are also smoothbores does that mean we should all start reverting by to muskets? jorge

I responded to the posted statement that some African countries don't allow muzzel brakes. that " mistake" was quickly edited out once I questioned its validity! I'm not angry,I was just reacting to the statement. My point is simply that Muzzel Brakes work effectively on any High Pressure cartridges and that when you get to certain levels of power they are a necessity not an option. If you don't want to use them frankly I could care less. My point is that they should be considered anytime recoil becomes an issue. By they way I disagree on the brake on the M1 tank and yes ,I know it's a smoothbore. Finally, people have killed elephant with .17 Remingtons( with brass solids). So what! Do lesser calibers work, of course, however, when you just have to stop a animal, I don't want a 450/400 in my hands. I want something much bigger and I want to be able to do that accurately. I also want to be able to make a second or third shot. A muzzel brake will let you do that without the penalty of a way to heavy gun. How many of them have ever lugged a 16-20lb .600NE or .700NE 15 miles a day. I'll bet they'd quickly change their mind.
As to PH's who detest muzzel brakes, from my experience they are FEW and far between, and well there are lots of other choices out there. Personally I use muzzel brakes whenever possible and they flat work. I have nothing more to say on this topic.-Rob

Rod, I agree with you fully, with a rifle chambered for a cartridge as big as your 600ok I'd say they are absolutely an necessity, if one wishes to use such a rifle to hunt anything with, and still get home with his retinas intact! I was just wondering why you were so upset, when a person points out that there are some choices, that are better, or at least just as good, that don't have the drawbacks of a rifle in the class of the 600ok. They do just fine, and don't need brakes. I was in no way,casting aspersions on your rifle or indeed your choice of brakes and I don't believe Bulldog was either!

everyone has their right to an opinion even though they are wrong.

quote:

Muzzle brakes do work. But if you use one, the other hunters will think you are a girlie man.

My .416 doesn't have a break, and every time I shoot the thing I can FEEL the tingle go down my arm from the shoulder, into my fingers, linger a little in my hand, then work it's way back up my arm. 2 or 3 shots from a bench, and I find myself having to consciously focus to put my shoulder up against it. This is shooting factory Federal 400 gr. Woodleighs, give or take. It's not so bad standing or hunting, but on the bench that .416 is plenty. Maybe I oughta invest in some sandbags, I dunno.

After 5 or 6 rounds from the bench with that Ruger #1, my shoulder looks like somebody attacked it with a sledgehammer. Luckily, I've never gotten into reloading, so the .416 is something of a special occasion gun.


As for that .300 mag of mine. Custom fitted heavy stock, thick 26" bull barrel, Pachmyr (sp?) decel. recoil pad, plus that muzzle-break = nearly NO recoil - whatsoever.

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit it's a brutal SoB on the ears when it goes off if you don't have earplugs on, sure, but any of you that are married ought to know hearing is over-rated. It's nice to see your bullet hit the target through the scope on a .300 though, and the blast is nothing a good set of earmuffs won't fix, plus at the end of the day, my "girlie man" shoulder is thanking me

I'm generally by myself though, and my ears are already trashed from all those years of IDPA practice when I was young and invincible and didn't need earplugs.

I don't generally go to ranges, and I don't take that .300 out when my 5 year old son is with me without making VERY certain he has earmuffs on. That's the only gun I own that I won't trust him to just put his hands over his ears.

Breaks work, but as of RIGHT NOW, sitting at my desk at work - my right ear is still inflammed and ringing (constantly) from 3 back-to-back shots I took with that .300 Saturday morning deer hunting without ear-plugs.

Why anyone would want to shoot a 9 to 9 1/2 lb. .416 Rigby doesn’t make sense. My Ruger M77 .416 Rigby came from the factory weighting almost 10 1/2 lbs.(a bit more than what factory specs. said it would) and was a bit barrel heavy. After adding an 11 oz. C&H Research mercury reducer it now balances out very nicely. The addition of the Burris scope and sling has it weighting a nice handy 11 plus lbs. Wearing a Past Magnum shield while at the range lets me shoot 40 or more shots without discomfort. Muzzle brakes, No thank you. Had one, been around them while they are being fired and consider them to be a health hazard. All muzzle brakes should have a mandatory warning inscribed on them stating that using one is hazardous to ones hearing. Lawdog

Overkill, If you value your hearing and everyone else's, then don't get a muzzle brake. If you need one, then it is too much gun for you. CHEERS

When I was sighting in my .378 Improved, I put on the muzzle brake. The guy on the bench next to me got the usual warning but chose to ignore. I fired a round and heard his truck door closing soon after. I looked and he was pouring a coffee, while shaking his head.
The kick was less severe but the noise and the thump from the blast was unbearable. I never used it again.

I despise muzzle breaks, and I won't own a rifle equipped with one. They are ugly, loud, structurally weaken the rifle, and in the field they will not only damage your hearing, but the hearing of others as well. In fact, if you wear plugs AND muffs at the range and shoot a breaked rifle, you will STILL suffer hearing damage, even with the highest decible protection-rated muffs and plugs that are available on the market. That is a factual reality, and this phenomenon was reported after exhaustive study by Jim Carmichel in 'Outdoor Life' magazine a few years ago.

This risk has not been lost on shooting facilities, nor has it been lost on pettifoggers. Our gun club has over 1,000 members, and break-equipped rifles are allowed on only one rifle range (we have seven), and then only on a series of five benches at the least-used portion of that particular range. The club is worried about liability exposure, and righfully so, especially after the precident-setting class-action lawsuit against Browning due to hearing damage claims stemming from their BOSS system.

There are indeed a number of PHs who simply won't allow a breaked rifle on safari, and I surely don't blame them in that regard. These PHs have their own hearing to protect, as well as trackers, game scouts, drivers, etc.

Personally, I'd rather deal with the recoil of an unbreaked rifle, rather than deal with the increased noise breaks inflict. If I can't deal with the recoil of some howitzer, then it's time to move down to a caliber level that I CAN handle.

AD

I think low pressure rounds are a nice thing for Africa. I read somewhere that was possible to actually kill an elephant with the 416 Rigby, which is a low pressure cartridge. Since it is a low pressure cartridge, the benefits of a muzzle brake are probably not as great as on a high pressure cartridge. However, muzzle brakes have a high CDI (chicks dig it) factor.

Guys,

I personally take no exception to anything folks have said on this isssue. Everybody has made some valid points. To me I see muzzle brakes as being extremely useful on rifles one is going to use for long range shooting were precision is of the utmost importance. You just shoot better if recoil is not a factor. At the other end of the spectrum I personally would not use a DG rifle that kicked so savagely I had to have it braked. I think you could do some real damage to the safari crew during a tense moment with buffalo or elephant.

Mark

I remember reading a gun-review of a .577 Tyrannosaur one time in some magazine.

The guy was talking about the cartridge, and talking about this or that spec, and about the gun he was using to shoot it with.

Then he started talking about recoil, and he said that if he had a full grown bull elephant bearing down on him, intent on stomping him into the ground, and the only gun he had available to shoot it with was that .577 T-Rex, he honestly wasn't sure if he would rather shoot the elephant or take his chances on being gored.

The only muzzle brake that is not very effective is the Magna-Port which is really designed to prevent muzzle jump. All of the others are effective recoil reducers, but EXTREMELY loud. I would suggest a removeable brake. Use it for sighting in and remove for hunting.

I found the site I was referring to above. If their claims are true (esp about no noise increase) it certainly seems to be a step forward. http://www.bp-tec.com/index.html

John

quote:

Originally posted by JKS:
I found the site I was referring to above. If their claims are true (esp about no noise increase) it certainly seems to be a step forward. http://www.bp-tec.com/index.html

John

They all make that claim. I reality all the do is re-direct the sound away from the shooter by directing it somewhat off to the sides. Right where any hunting partner, PH/guide stands or where the next station is at the range. Now just guess who is going to reap the harvest of the increased blast? Lawdog

Oh I long for the days when this website went under that weird url that the malcontents couldn't find, members had respect for one another and offered opinions and advice. Frendly jousting with The Crumudgeon was the height of web warfare. Unfortunately, that was over five years ago. Now I only occasionally log on to get a little education, or offer my own advice (where I have some experience). All the server crashes and the need to "reregister" with a new name were a minor hinderance. But these self important "my way or the highway" hot headed nim-RODs ALL PUN INTENDED just ruin it.

My thanks goes out to the moderators and many fine members who've helped me in the past.

Safe Hunting
Clint
aka Southpaw, Member199, and I can't remember all the rest.

Lawdog,

I agree that most brakes make the same claim, but at least this BP-Tec brake IS different in having only top ports (big ones like a pistol comp) and no side ports. The ability to tune it to neutral muzzle rise seems cool too. I'm like you in that I hate the blast of regular brakes, but I guess I'm always hoping for the better mousetrap that actually works better

John