Has anybody had any experience with a highwall(Browning or Winchester)in 50-110 or 50-95 using smokeless?would appreciate hearing about how it was,am thinking of getting one made.
Thanks for your help.

I would assume that the 50-95 would be similar to the 50 Alaskan in case capasity, so similar loads would give similar performace and pressures. If you want lower end loads, you can use 50-70 data and work up from there.

Sorry not much help...

Rich the 50 AK and 50-70 are smaller cases(shorter) than the 50-110 and also I think the 50-95.

Bill have you asked the Q in the single shot forum?

Thanks for your replies guys,yes I have posted it on the single shot forum,but have'nt gotten much specific information yet.
I looked it up on Quickload & the case is 2.4''
long (50-110)nothing was listed for the 50-95.
I think that a highwall hunter in .50 would be really cool to play with.
Putting one together presents two options so far,firstly,just get one built on a recent winchester or Browning action by a well known gunsmith like Doug Turnbull,who does a lot of 50 express conversions & secondly order one new from Ballard,any thoughts or suggestions.Thanks

I would rather put money into a Ballard built HiWall, than sink a lot of money into some Jap copy. Just MHO.

Hog Killer

Why not go with the standard .50-90 (2.5") case? It is readily available and not terribly expensive.

The more important issue is what you are going to use for a barrel twist. Most folks that talk about .50-110s use very light bullets by current standards, and thus slow twist. BPCR shooters using the .50-90 will want a 24" twist or so, and shoot 600=750 gr bullets.

It is the barrel that matters, not the cartridge.

Brent

Hi guys,
I have been trying to post a reply for a while now & it just would'nt work,no idea where they were ending up at.
anyways here I try again,yes I did post on the single shot forum but have'nt recieved anything specific yet,I did find out that the 50-110 win is 2.4'' & case water capacity is 108gr,I should be able to make it work with smokeless,am thinking of ordering a Ballard Highwall in this caliber

hey since this is working so well now,might as well reply to all!
Hog Killer
that is sound advice,I did'nt realize the rest were not American made,I am very seriously considering a Ballard Highwall.

Brent
I would not want a Sharps caliber in a highwall,although a Shiloh Sharps in 50-90 would be one cool rifle as well!

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill74:
Brent
I would not want a Sharps caliber in a highwall,although a Shiloh Sharps in 50-90 would be one cool rifle as well!

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Why not a Sharps in a Highwall? I know that some sharps calibers were originally found in Highwalls and I also know that they are frequently made that way today. I can check Campbells books and tell you exactly what .50s were made in highwalls, but if you are going to shoot smokeless, I can't see that being historically correct would matter much anyway.

Ballard highwalls are pretty nice. Uberti (Italian) is getting good press these days.

The Browning/Winchester highwalls are known for their really impressive accuracy, though not totally faithful to the originals in mechanics.

Steve Meacham of Meacham Hardware in Montana (Kila?), also makes custom Highwalls of very high grade.

Brent

Brent
if you have the time,it would be interesting to know what .50 calibers the old highwalls came in.
By the way the 50-110 is a little shorter in case length over the 50-90,& if I could find any info on the 50-95 win my guess is it would be shorter still & proabably easiest of the three to load for,but brass is way more expensive & nobody seems to have a reamer for it.

Bill74,
From Grant's first book, he lists:
50-100-300 Winchester Express
50-70 Gov't
.50-95 Wincehster Express
.50 Eley

I had forgotten about the .50 Ely. I don't even know what it is, but I do remember seeing a few Winchesters for sale in that caliber.

The second express cartridge does not list a bullet weight, but if it's 300 like the .50-100 WE, I'd never ever consider it. Just crazy to use a bullet that is that big in diameter but so light weight. The original Sharps Big Fifty (.50-2.5" aka .50-90) used a 473 gr bullet that is still to light in my opinion (60 million dead bison suggest my opinion might be mistaken however).

Grant lists the .45 Sharps .40-90 Sharps bottleneck and a bunch of other .40 Sharps cartridges.

I do not consider Grant's book to be the best authority but my copy of Campbell's book, which is THE AUTHORITY bar none, is at home.

Brent

Brent
thanks for looking it up!

Bill,
I checked Campbell's book last night. It showed not only the above calibers, but the rifling twist to go with them was 1:60 in accommodation for the wimpy 300 gr bullet that they used.

Campbell also lists the following calibers as well
577 Ely
50-90 Sharps
50-140 Sharps (of course never chambered by Sharps, but nonetheless given their moniker).

All of these were rare, but documented chambering in the 1885 Highwall.

He also lists speculation of a 70 caliber rifle (potentially a necked down 12 gauge), but states that it is only speculation based on some papers. By the time his second book on the singleshot came out, he may actually have found such a rifle, but I don't have his second book and have only skimmed it a while back.


So, 50-90 SS is authentic - and a lot easier and better balanced for a heavier bullet with a historically authentic, though still slow, 1:36 barrel
Brent

I would compare the cost of Ballard against the Sharps and Meechaan versions first, and see which you like best

Brent
Thanks for all this additional info,I have the case specs on the 50-110,am going to look for specs on the 50-90 sharps,next I will talk to my buddy at the Bull shop & get some potential bullet weights & measurements(length,seating depth e.t.c),plug it all into Quickload & see which works out better(should'nt be much difference between the two,because as I understand it only 1/10" difference in the case lengths).next comes the Greenhill formula to see if I can make some sense of the barrel twist required.


Dave
I am definately going with a Highwall as I already have two Sharps,Meachem & Ballard both build quality rifles,I am going to go with Ballard because they are using 4140 steel for their actions whereas Meachem uses 8620,costwise proabably about the same.

Bill,
If you are going to use Greenhill or any variant, be sure to use the flavor that best approximates the bullet types (lead or jacketed) and velocity range that you want to work with. Most bpcr folks find that the greenhill works better with a constant fo 125 rather than 150. There are many other twist-stability calculators out there that you may want to research but I don't mess with anything other than those appropriate for bp velocities and lead.

Brent

Bill,

I'll have to agree with what Brent says about going with the .50/90SS in your Highwall. Altho I don't have this caliber in an original wall I do have it in a converted Pedersoli with a Snover barrel.

In the case of the .50/90SS the case length is 2 1/2" and is the same case as used in the /90, /100. & /110 SS loadings.

Haven't been on here before this so didn't see your original message till now. If you have any questions I'll be happy to try and answer them the best I can.

PETE

Guys,
thanks for your input,what I would really appreciate is getting case dimensions for both 50-90SS & 50-110WIN,I am wondering just what the differences are,all I know so far is case length for both & there is a difference of one tenth of an inch between the two,if everything else would be the same then it would simply be a matter of ease of reloading & component availability.
thanks again.

Bill,

Ok! Here you go. Taken from Ken Waters' book "designing and forming Custom Cartridges"

.50/90SS

Rim diam. - .660
Rim thickness - .0710
Diam. in front of rim - .5680
Length to "neck" - 1.7710
OAL - 2.505
Water displacement - 148 grs.

.50/110 Win.

Rim diam. - .608
Rim thickness - .070
Diam. in front of rim - .553
Length to "neck" - not given
OAL - 2.405
Water displacement - 159 grs.

Dies are available from Buffalo Arms. For the .50/90SS they are from Lyman - $39.70 (most likely a misprint), 4D - $138.10, & RCBS - $220.00. For the .50/110 Win. BA lists 4D - $138.10, & RCBS - $220.00. Personally I would avoid 4D. The two sets I got from them one was marginal, & the other unacceptable, and sent it back in exchange for a set of RCBS's.

BA also sells brass for these two cartridges. For the .50/90SS BELL brass goes for $160/100 or $36/20. For the .50/110 Win they sell for - Starline at $84/100 or $45/50, & Bertram at $54/20. The last I heard a month or so ago BELL had been sold and the new owner hasn't started up production. As for Bertram. I wouldn't buy any on a bet! A lot of 100 .25/20SS cases had 20% rejects in 5 firings. As a comparison, I made 300 out of .222 brass and in 15 firings the only rejects I've had were 3 due to expanded primer pockets when I got a little carried away with load development. Others have had the same experiences with Bertram.

An RCBS Rockchucker press will just barely work for the .50/90 and the 600 gr. bullets I use, so should also work with the Win. cartridge. If you have one of those or a similar press you should be OK there.

PETE

PETE
I don't understand,how can the 50-110 win have a case displacement of 159gr which is more than the 148gr displacement of the 50-90ss & still be shorter in length & have a smaller diameter than the 50-90ss?

Bill,

Why did I know you were gonna ask that!

I asked myself the same question, and about all I could come up with was possibly the Win. case has slightly thinner walls. Win. cases are noted for being thinnner walled, even today, in comparison to all other brands.

Even at that tho if you will weigh out the water difference you will see it doesn't amount to all that much. In .50/90 BELL brass I have gone as high as 110 grs. of 2F Goex behind a 600 gr. Brooks bullet with no trouble.

PETE

Just so the asylum knows, Bell is out of the commercial brass business. Their website is entirely devoted to the mil ammo - specifically 40mm grenades...


Toolmaker

brass can be had from www.buffaloarms.com for sure. They make some that is certainly better stuff than Bertrams. I don't know if they do the Winchester flavor, but bet they do.

Also, it was just announced on another website that RCBS will finally start offering .50-90 and other bpcr dies at decent prices (like ~$30 per set). Apparently, they are tiring of Lyman beating them over the head with a better value.

Brent