Can Anyone tell me when these things were actually surplus on the market.? I have always heard of them with intrigue, but have never seen one. I would actually like to find one for my older and modest military collection. I think it would be a fun thing to play with.

Thanks for any input!!

I am not sure that the Siamese Mauser's were originally chambered for the 45-70. I thought that they were chambered for some rimmed cartridge, and when the actions came in to the US the 45/70 was the most popular rimmed conversion for them. I have only seen and shot one though. Sean
A link for you http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cruffler/type-66_siamese_mauser.htm

[ 08-06-2003, 16:05: Message edited by: LoneEagle ]

The Siamese Mauser was never factory chambered for 45-70, it is simply the only Mauser action that could be rebarreled to make a bolt action 45-70, and even then the feeding was hard to make work properly. In these rifles, the old 45-70, can be made into a real serious cartridge, because of the higher pressures the Mauser will tollerate! Many of these were converted to 45-70 back in the late fifties, and early sixties, and used for bear rifles in Canada, and Alaska. If you find one make sure it feeds from a full magazine before you pay the asking price!

"it is simply the only Mauser action that could be rebarreled to make a bolt action 45-70, "

I am not sure this is totally correct. The Bolt face is larger on the Siamese but, the magazine and rail alterations would be necessary in either case. I have done a couple of P-14s in 45-70 without any major hurdles. It is a matter of how much time you are willing to put into it. Others have done British Enfields in 45-70. If you knew your stuff and were skilled I don't see any reason why you could not do a 45-70 Turk. It would requre extensive modification, I guess it all depends on how much you want one and how much time you are willing to invest.

Closing thought here. Why soup up a 45-70 when you could skip right to a 458 Win Mag? Hot loads are tough on 45-70 brass. You can get performance equal to hot 45-70 with mild to moderate 458 loads. Hey that new shortie Marlin 458 looks interesting too. The big rim on the 45-70 and thin brass will cause problems. Why mess with it??

[ 08-06-2003, 23:51: Message edited by: scot ]

I have a Siamese Mauser that I converted to 45-70 just for extremely hot loads. It is not simple or easy to do and most of the ones I've seen won't feed or eject properly( More than one or two rounds from the magazine at most). It took me quite awhile to sort mine out! The major issue with the Siamese mauser is the magazine box is severely slanted in order to properly position the rims of the original Siamese Mauser round for feeding. This box is suboptimal for the 45-70. The 45-70's want to porpose in the box when the bolt is closed and a new follower and spring must be made specifically for the 45-70. The rear of the action has to be relieved( ported) for proper ejection of the 45-70 round and a new longer ejector fabricated. The bolt face has to be opened a little and deepened. Remember, an extractor cut has to be made into the new barrel for clearance.
Mine has a 26 inch barrel and has been throated to allow for a 2.7 inch COL. I won't use loads in it that produce more than approx. 46 KPSI. These actions are in fact certainly no stronger than a std M98 and possibly weaker.
Nevertheless, It will move a 400 gr bullet over 2100 fps with 53grs of Rl-7 and will shoot 1 MOA. Recoil is stout but manageable . This is about the same power level as a 450/400 Jeffery and will penetrate just about as deeply. I have absolutely no doubt it will kill a cape buffalo just as well as a 450/400( which has a long history of success).
I built it to prove the point that you can make a 45-70 that can reliably kill buffalo. However, there are much better tools like the 600 OK IMHO.
Most Siamese Mausers you see for sale in 45-70 were cobbled together by people who don't know what they are doing. My advice is stay away from them. Your way better off with a Ruger number 1 in 45-70. In the end getting a fully functional 45-70 Siamese Mauser will cost you more than a Ruger number 1 or 3.-Rob

I had one...it looked great would not feed worth a damn. I had over 1100.00 was lucky to sell for 1/4 the price. Make sure it feeds and functions.

urdubob

Siamese Mausers were made by Japanese.They are as super strong as Arisakas.Ones I looked at,as
long as you were building mag to feed, you
might just as well do it in 45-90.Narrow up the rear bridge to lenthen ejector slot, if needed.Use a different floorplate, wit a mag box like an Enfield..Then you have a cartridge you could really get a going.A little extra monkeying I could put a 458Win in one.Ed.

Guys,

Thanks for the ideas and the comebacks.

Just sort of an interest. I do think that if I had my shorts on fire to get a 45/70 like that, the Ruger Number One idea is a winner.

Just always heard about the 45/70 Siamese Mausers and it is one that I have never seen.

As an interesting note, I stopped into a gunsmith shop in Oklahoma once when I had a couple of hours to kill due to a cancelled flight at the airport.

The gunsmith had a Marlin 1895 that had been rechambered from 45/70 to 40/65 with a 30 inch barrel on it. He told me that some guy had ordered it built, paid in advance and never returned to pick it up. However many people had seen it, and asked about it. Even wanting to buy it, but he would not sell it, as it had already been paid for by the first guy. So people ordered one, and he started taking orders for them and other calibers. Most was word of mouth from Cowboy Action Shoots. He was getting over $1500.00 a piece for them, and said it was more profitable than the rest of his business.

Guess I am not the only person that likes some of the nostalgic stuff, the ones that have not gotten trendy yet ( as the Sharps, and old Lever Actions have gotten).

Siamese Mauser is chambered for 8x52R Cartridge which you can make from 348Winchester cases. The bolt face is not quite 45/70 size and has to be opened up to the larger head size.

Cases for the original chambering can be made from 45/70 but the rim has to be turned down and rechamfered. Size in a 40/65 FL then 33Win and finally a 8x52R FL. Trim to length.

My own rifle is still in good condition and groups around 4" at 100 yards with a 230gn case projectile.

The rifle is well made and finish is quite smooth for a military rifle

If want the equivalent of a bolt-action 45-70 you can build a 450 Marlin if you want a factory load or a 458x2" if you like wildcats....the difference is in the width of the belt.

There were two chamberings for the Siamese Mausers, 8X50R Siamese and later, they were rechambered for the 8X52R Siamese. Both of these were unique to Thailand, and never used by any other country. Because the rim diameter of these two rounds was close to the .45/70, a lot of people rebarrelled the Siamese mausers for it. The Siamese never used the .45/70 in their Mausers.

Both of the 8mm Siamese 8mm cartridges are fun to play with, but you have to make cases for them.
According to Nonte, the 8X50R Siamese case is formed from 7.62X54R Russian, and the 52mm case can be made from .45/70 brass, of all things!

[ 08-07-2003, 18:37: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

I think that if I wanted something like that I would go buy a Gibbs Enfield in 45-70. They should have the feeding of those sorted out, if not there is a factory to send it back to. Sean

I am thinking of rebarreling a 1891 to 45/70... the 7.62x54r is JUST about the same rim diameter as 45/70... it's in my safe... i haven't shot it in years... and it handles loads to 30-06 pressure pretty well..

ah, well... when i get board... anyone got a 458 barrel laying about?

50.90?

jeffe

I had one barrelled by Shaw in the late '70s. Never had any feeding problems. Shaw made quite a business of that at one time to the point of having barrelled actions for sale for years.

Last summer I bought a P-14 Enfield Drill Rifle and scrapped everything but the action. I had Bauska barrel it in .450 Marlin, then dropped it into an old Herters walnut sporter stock and added a Pacific rear peep sight. The cartridge fit the .303 bolt face and required no modifications to feed from the stock magazine. It was a quick and very reliable conversion and I could have used the .458X2 American just as easily, but didn't feel like trimming brass. The belted cases sure give less feeding headaches than the rimmed ones in my opinion. I use heavy .45/70 and .458X2 loading data for this rifle. Last fall, it was the last sound a little Texas whitetail ever heard.

So you can convert a .303 enfield to 45/70 or .450 Marlin ??

Gents,
Yes you can convert a Enfield to 45-70.
I have one that is in full military trim..a No1mk3 that when sitting in a rack is indistinguishable from a .303,only when the barrel is facing you is it possible to spot the rather large hole in the muzzle.

This pic may interest you if it works,my first try at posting pics....45nut

[ 08-09-2003, 06:28: Message edited by: 45nut ]

In my opinion all S.M.L.E.s should be made into
45-70 or 45-90...45Nut, that is a great picture
and a great rifle.Ed.

Geeze Ed,
I think I am blushing Thank you......It was a long process but I like the way it turned out.... 45nut

[ 08-09-2003, 09:05: Message edited by: 45nut ]