Guys,

I notice the comment in the post on 416 Rugers that someone mentioned a CZ stock cracking as well.

I also remember some comment made about CZ 550 in 416 Rigby being prone to stock cracking.

Can someone please summarize the problem and the solution for me?

If it happens to Rugers and CZ's does that just mean one has to calculate either restocking or rebedding into the price of a 416 Rigby?

thanks,

Mike,
For the price of a box of steelbed (35)and assuming you own a dremel, you can fix this, without restocking.

1: with a pear shaped burr, take off 1/16 to 1/8 around the barrel lug, and take back about 1/2" inch toward receiver. You are going to put steel bed and a little brass or stainless bolt there to spread the pressure

2: repeat around the receiver front lug, except use a flat bollomed burr. No new bolt required, but take this, essentially, from nearly the mag to the shoulder of the chamber on the barrel

3: with the same tool, examine the rear of the action, look for any place that, if slide backwards, would hit the wood, say from the back of the rear bridge to the tang. you are ONLY interested in the SIDE and TOP of the action, as the bottom should be 100% flat. that allows it to slide, if required. Clean it up 1/8" or so (this may be too much, but that's more astecthics)

4: mix and prep the steel and steel bed. Use according to instuctions. BTW, use plumbers putty to fill voids. It's cheap, fast, and will stick.

It's a DIY chore, and should take you, the first time, about 5 hours, if you take your time, including setting the action. The next time, 2 hours... and after than, it's a 1.5 hour deal.

Hope this helps

jeffe

Jeffe,

Wow ... ask the question and get a VERY knowledgeable answer pronto!

You Guys and this place are simply amazing.

Thanks VERY much.

Don't have a Dremel, but have a Foredom and a mill ... betch'a they'll do the job

Mike,

These guys are amazing aren't they. And they are always willing to help!! It's nice to be a part of AR.

Bob

My friends and mine .416 stocks cracked within 8 & 9 shots respectively. My crack is so fine that I ma notsure it is even a crack. My mate sent his off for warranty work and upon return had it bedded in devcon and has no problems. I had a new stock made up for mine. Definitely have them attended to before fireing.

My 602 was converted to a 500AS I used the original stock and steel bedded it and reenforced the wrist. 200 + of insane recoil and still going strong.

Regards Martin

A lot of factory big bores crack because they use drop in assembly line stocks and the recoil is just too much for slop fit....

Glass bed the tang, recoil lug mortise, and 1" of the barrel and the barrel lug if one exists..Install a couple of cross bolts and your fixed for life....

The cross bolts probably are not necessary but a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....

Another reason, much along the line of Ray's comments, is
big bores don't fly off shelves. Rifle sits, wood changes, shrinks away from the metal, and the gun gets a little running room to smack the stock, and you end up with a cracked stock.

First thing I would do is take the gun apart, and solve problem yourself, or have your smith go through it, and make sure the stock fits properly, prior to shooting.
s

Jeffe,

Do you know of any sites inline or can you recommend any books which show this process with diagrams or pictures? I have bedded the the sum total of two rifles and I am not even sure I did this right although they do shoot better than before!

I am particularly interested to see how the cross bolts play their part as i have never seen a rifle with them dissasembled. Is it simply a case of the recoil lugs bearing directly against them?

Finally, why don't the vertical action bolts act as "recoil lugs" and prevent the action moving backwards in the stock? Are the bolt holes in the stock deliberatly oversize?

Regards,

Pete

[ 03-07-2003, 12:59: Message edited by: Pete E ]

Pete,

I think the purpose of a crossbolt is to exert side to side compressive force on the wood, preventing it from splitting along the grain. My guess is that a crossbolt that wasn't torqued down a bit wouldn't be doing much. I suppose it might distribute the recoil across the width of the stock, instead of just against the front of the recoil lug recess.

Here's a link to a site with some good stock info, including a bit about bedding.

http://riflestocks.tripod.com/

The gunsmiths here are also a wealth of information about bedding -- perhaps Jack Belk or John Ricks will chime in here -- I know they have both posted a lot of how-to info on bedding in the past.

I'm personally skeptical of the theory re: shrinkage and splitting. If that was the only factor at play, all of those old Rigby and H&H rifles would have split their stocks long ago in the African heat. There's got to be inletting problems involved, no big surprise in a production line rifle that probably has little, if any, hand-fitting work.

Todd

Edited: Just noticed the last paragraph -- I opine that actions screws are not stock saving devices because a) they dont hold the stock in significant compression, in a small area, across the grain, and b) they form one unit with the part that is doing the battering (barreled action), whereas a stock bolt is isolated from the action. This is effect makes an action screw act more as a slide hammer/splitting wedge than a crossbolt; and that is why the holes are made oversize, also why the stock pillar in a Mauser is oversize.

[ 03-07-2003, 17:47: Message edited by: Todd Getzen ]

Todd,

Thanks for the input and the info on the site; i will take a look around when i get a chance.

I think gun owners must be the only customer base which buys a product and accepts that it is sub standard and will probably fail even if used as the manufacturor intended! And we repeatedly let the manufacturors get away with this!

I can't understand why the makers can't route the inletting for the action well over size and then with the action held in place, cast the bedding compound around it so to speak. The action would need to be located correctly in the stock and held temporarily in place while it cured, but I don't think it would need any major hand fitting ect...

regards,

Pete

Pete, injection molding is an interesting idea -- it could be done with a dummy barrelled receiver in place, that had no bottom magazine cutout or screw / pin holes for epoxy to get stuck in. If it was done before final stock sanding and finishing, it would work fine. I wonder why no gun manufacturers are playing with that idea?
It would really only be mandatory on big ones like the 416 Rigby and up.

Todd

If you buy an Acraglas Gel kit from Brownells, a very comprehensive instruction sheet comes with it. At least it did when I bought last.

When fired a big bore will cause the magazine mortise to bow out ward on each side, like a bow. It time this will split the stock through the recoil lug, behind the magazine and in the tang..cross bolts will prevent this from happening....they are very effective and when combined with glass in the recoil lug areas, tang and 2"'s of the chamber, things do not shrink, swell and move about..they instead remain stable..Recoil bolts are not recoil lugs...the ottom metal screws should have a little play so as not to bind the action and cause inaccuracy.. there job is to hold the metal to the wood. Piller bedding is to combat compaction of the wood but glass will do the same thing for all practical purposes...

A properly hand enletted stock with cross bolts will work on any caliber with properly laid out, cured, dried and finished wood (end grain is stong and hard indeed)..The problem today is in the words, cured, dry, laid out, and finished....

Found this old thread and was wondering.

Would the atomized tungsten bedding be better than the standard steel bed??

should I bed from the barrel lug back or go all the way to the forearm?

If so should I add weight to the rear of the stock also to keep balanced?