There has been much talk about the 50 Alaskan and 50 Whisper in recent days and at least a couple of people looking for a 50 caliber cartridge that will feed from am magazine with VLD and military surplus bullets. As noted elsewhere, design by commitee is seldom likely to produce a product that makes anybody happy, but I would welocome the chance to split the cost of a reamer and reduce the cost of dies and share test data. Is there anyone serious about building a .50 with a case 2.2-2.5" long with a capcity between the 50 Alaskan and an 2.5" 50/460 Weatherby? Does anyone have any input?

DOC

What action do you want to set it up for?

For big cases, such as the 460 wby head, action is critical. I can't see putting a 2" case in a Sako TRG-S or CZ550 action, but maybe you have other ideas that would make this interesting.

Buffalo Bore and Starline are working to bring out factory 50 Alaskan brass, I would guess prices will be around $1 a case. Yes, you do have the bugaboo of trying to make a rimmed case feed from a magazene, but the reamers and dies are already taken care of.

Now, if you don't want to worry about the hassles of a rimmed case, then the 460 whthby shortened to ~2.25" seems the most logical route.

Well, here I am to chime in. I (as you hinted) am looking for such a beast. I tried calling SSK today to ask about their 50 Whisper in a rifle setup, but all their 'technical' people were out. I was told to call on Mon or Wed of next week so I'll let you know.

I still think that I will probably get a .510/460 Short reamer (Mabey I'll call THAT the .500 Oxen) with a .588" throat instead of the .4" one on a standard 500 A-Square, all I need to do is figure out the dimensions. I think that the design would work well.

500 GRAINS, is it the boltface you're worried about or the length of the round, or ??? I am curious in perfecting a design.

Can someone tell me the history of the 500 Whisper and post its number's?.....thanx.....10

BMG

I am assuming that we will start with an adequate boltface.

But it doesn't make sense to put a short round in a long action - like the CZ550 or Sako TRG-S. Might as well chamber for the 500 A2 and load it down.

Is there a short action you were planning on using?

10 pt,

It's my understanding that the 500 whisper is nothing more then the 50-70 government, but it is loaded with 750 gr 50 bmg bullets, to 1150 fps, and shot from a fast twist barrel, I believe a 1-8 twist is used, but not sure. I don't know what it'll do with lighter bullets. A buddy has talked to JD several times about building one for a contender, but keeps bailing out since the twist is too fast for cast bullets, and if you can't shoot 350-450 gr 500 linebaugh type cast bullets for inexspensive plinking, then you have an exspensive toy, unless you limit yourself to the bmg pulled bullets ~$.33 ea and up.

JD Jones has also done a 2.5", and I think, a 2" long 460 wthby necked to 50. The 2" version should easily push a 450 gr bullet 2000 fps from a carbine, which is what the original 50 Alaskan load was.

Thanx Paul, I'd never heard of it before. I bet it makes a bang when it goes off.....10

500grains,
The confusion may be that a 'short' .510cal round is still long. The brass trim length of a regular .338 Lapua is 2.714" and then a little over .5" of bullet or so sticking out from that so the Sako action holds rounds that are about 3.4" or so?
The brass length of the .510 Whisper is 1.88" if I remember correctly and the loaded round with an A-Max is about 3.35" or so. This means that a 510 Whisper round can be fed from the mag. THIS is what I am looking for, but...
I want it to be mag fed from a LONG action (CZ-550 can handle 3.75" OAL rounds), based on the .460 Wby brass case only shortened, and designed specifically to shoot inexpensive and fun :-) BMG bullets (less than $.25 for Ball, AP, API, APIT, Tracers and $.50 for Incendiary & Spotter/Tracers).
The cannalure of a BMG bullet is 1.55" from the tip of the bullet, so a piece of brass that is 2.1" including a .4" neck is: 1.55" + 2.1" = 3.65".
A CZ-550 will hold two in the mag and one in the tube. It will also feed them from the mag and function.
I am getting a .510/460 Long made, but that is a single shot with BMG bullets and a repeater with 'short' hunting bullets. The quest is for a .510/??? Short that can feed BMG tipped rounds from the mag.
This is why a short action would not work and probably why we are not seeing eye to eye on the project. Have a good one.

BMG

It seems that by a short .510 round, you mean something that fits in an H&H length box (3.650" Cartridge OAL). That makes sense.

I would be surprised if the 338 lapua/416 rigby brass would leave enough shoulder, but maybe...

Why do only 2 rounds fit in the cz550 magazine? Is it because of magazine taper?

BMG, just a minor point, I load the 338 Lapua COL out to 3.61 " they feeds fine from the factory TRG-S magazine and seats the bullets right off the lands...

[This message has been edited by yorick (edited 07-06-2001).]

500grains,
1)- Glad we got the short/long thing clarified, now down to business.
2)- Not much of a shoulder, but a PIC of it is here: http://www.sskindustries.com/riflecartr.html
3)- My bad, it can hold more.

yorick,
1)- Thanks for the OAL measurment. I looked all over, but couldnt find an OAL for a loaded round, only the brass. Hey, what's .21" OAL shorter between freinds? (glad to hear you're not pushin daisies yet ;-)

What about the 495 A-Square?

600 grain bullet at 2250 fps.

Use 460 wby cases and trim them back. 3.65 cartridge OAL.

Headspace on the belt and forget about the puny shoulder.

The 50 peacekeeper looks like it has enough shouler for handloads if the brass is formed for your gun (but not a factory round which must be small enough to fit every improperly reamed chamber imaginable).

Do you know anyone who has a 50 peace keeper?

I dont see why they wouldn't work, they are simply a .460 Wby case cut down to 2.5" right?

You would still need to trim off .25" of the length so the BMG bullet could be seated on the cannalure, but I don't see that as a problem.

A local, Derwin, has two rifles firing cartridges from standard length Mauser actions that may be of interest to this board, one appropriate for this thread. Both were designed when magnum length controlled feed actions were few and far between, and powder developments allowed a 2.5" case to match traditional velocities developed in the original offerings.
First, a .416 Rigby case shortened to 2.5, really overshadowing the potential of the shortened .404 and H&H belted case options. There was also a plan to blow this out to .458, but a more significant development of immediate interest here superceded it.
Understand that deep pockets were not in the equation and bullet availability was an issue, so some decisions or compromises made years ago might be different today. Derwin has a strong aversion to anything that interferes with proper feed, so belted and rebated rims were off the table. The design established was for a .505 Gibbs case to be shortened to 2.5" and opened slightly to use .510 bullets.
Both these cartridges made extensive trips to Africa, with the .505 Gibbs x 2.5 accounting for elephant and buffalo, the .416 Rigby x 2.5 taking buffalo and others. Domestically, the .505 took a moose at 125 yards, quartering away, with a shoulder shot. When they cut up the moose they discovered a broken neck. No one claims with certainty that the impact broke the neck, but it seems an fair conclusion.
It has been a couple years since I last handled these rifles, but from memory; at least one has an integral rib with 3 leaf sights, integral barrel lug, integral barrel sling band, and integral front sight with both gold and ivory beads in a pop-up configuration. On the other rifle some of these barrel features may be soldered. Also, at least one rib is machined to accept QD mounts, placing an extended eye relief scope ahead of the receiver ring. This design feature was in use many years before anyone coined the term "scout rifle." The interesting story on this is that the owner said he didn't feel right using an optical sight on big game and removed the scope for field use. Quite the traditionalist!
Reamers for both cartridges are still floating around (a couple of the .416s were put together a couple years back,) and could probably be located if there was a need. The 50, with a long action and proper throating, would work for the long target bullets. If there's any interest, I can facilitate contact. A local 'smith has a few dummy rounds so I can get some rough dimensions rather easily.

The encore 510 whipser I reload has a 1.885" case. The neck is cut in on a lathe. Merely using a sizing die to make the neck and shoulder results in neck walls that are far too thick to allow the round to chamber. My loaded rounds are 3.575" seated to .025" off the lands. Making my own cases from 338 lapua is hard. They do not give me as consistant velocities as SSK brass. Still trying though.

Ranb

I've got a 50 Alaskan order right now from ssk.hope its done soon. does any one have any load data for it? thanks Jason