Ok, I guess it's time to start getting serious about this next project and need some imput. I know for a 100% that I want a .505 gibbs, thats for sure. Thing is I don't want to sell the truck, mortgage the home or anything like that. I know that cheap and .505 gibbs don't even belong in the same sentence but I can't help but think that there has got to be a way to do one on somewhat of a limited budget. Time is not an issue. So what do you think, CZ 550 & rebarrel, or ruger magnum action....other options. I know that there is going to be some feed work involved to but I really don't want all the fancy stuff usually associted with a rifle like this ie: rust bluing, triple a grade walnut ect... I'm thinking more along the lines of a tough working rifle that still retains a little class. If you guys could chimein a give me a few pointers and guidelines then I would most appreciate it. Thanks.

Jr,
while I am the one with the least experience in building monsters of nick, rob and dave, I have some insights... and some "savings" that are NOT savings.

The very very very FIRST thing I would say is "please don't build a gibbs" for 4 reasons... 1: you are VERY limited in what actions you should use, imho, 2: the brass is CRAZY in price, and 3: if you really really really have to do a gibbs, think really hard about a 505/.510 so you have a larger choice in bullets. 5: there are several smaller, just as nostalgic rounds that will feed easier

Now, that I know I have NOT disuaded you, we'll talk

if you started with an enfield, and your smith will hit you with 2 of HIS mortgage payments you will just about break even with starting with a 550, when it's all said and done, and I'll tell you why

you are looking at
150 action
400 profiling, feeding, custom box, and boltface
250 pacnor threaded/chambered barrel
50 finish reamer rental
200 sights
50 trigger
250 3 pos model 70 safety (this is HIGHER than a mauser-ish)
35 bedding stuff
50 barrel lug
50 recoil pad
50 merc tube
15 2 or 3 xbolts and install kit
200 strong plain stock
150 checkering
100 blue
2000 (gun)
200 dies with shell holder and bushing

OR
cz550 (using cz stock)(assumes box is close)
630 cz 416 rigby (nostalgic enough)
150 3pos safety
550 pacnor install barrel, do feeding, bolt face, lug, install sights and blue
120 sights (using front sight off cz)
35 bedding stuff
50 recoil pad
50 merc tube

1585 (cz stock)

(add stock LATER)
15 2 or 3 xbolts and install kit
200 strong plain stock
150 checkering

total
1950
200 dies, etc

these prices won't change much on brass/dies and are guesstimates as of late 2003, and assume you'll be doing LOTS of this work yourself. This will also get you to this gun in ~4 months.. rather than a year or so...

if *I* wasn't going to do this most myself, I would even think about sending a cz to wells, and have them do the work. they offer some neat custom work, like intergal sight bases and lug, for about 100 more than just buying sights, and use the sights off your CZ OR, your cz rear sight and cut the front for the NECG inserts.

now, let's talk about care and FEEDING of it...

cases, 505 are about 4 bucks each... same for the 500 jeffery...

BUT, 416 rigby or basis are about 1.80... and, when you run that out to 100 cases, that's 400 vs 180... 220 bucks...

505 bullets, cheapest, at about 1.50 EACH, and it will EAT powder by the pound...

If you are open for suggestion... I'll throw out the 500 asquare, 510wells, and the best of bred, the 470 mgbogo.

as for the ruger, unless you get it rebored, you are honesty waiting money for the GREAT barrel and the looks. You would need to find one of the realy model 416's, with the heavier barrel

hope this helps
jeffe

[ 11-10-2003, 03:18: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Wow! You have really given me some things to think about. Now you know as well as I that we don't need a reason to want a particular caliber other than just that... want. I do want the gibbs and do realise that the 500 a2, 510 wells, would be much easier, on the wallet and the work but I figure I might as well get what truely makes me happy than maybe regret it later down the road. The suggestion for the .510 version is something that I will have to consider very hard as I do know the hassel of finding the original diameter bullets. Your response is more than I hoped for and is very much appreciated. Please feel free to give any more hints or advice. Thanks.

Jr- There are multiple options for a 505 Gibbs. None of them are Cheap like Jeffe said above. Personally, I'd go one of two routes. One, look for a Remington Model 30 express, buy it and scrap everything but the action. Then buy a Mag box,follower,spring for the 505 from Jim Wisner and a set of NECG sights and barrel band frontsight. Buy a good 505 barrel from Pac-Nor and a dakota quarter rib and send the whole thing to Dennis Olsen and ask him to do the action work, chamber it, do the boltface,make it feed,etc. While your waiting, get a stock inletted for the action and barrel contour and do this work yourself. If you are real handy you might get out of this for under $2000. With really good wood , you could conceivably make a rifle worth $10K to the right person.
The other option is buy a Ruger .416 magnum action and have Bowen do their conversion on it. I've never seen one of these, but have heard good things.-Rob

What about this Ryan breeding fella? Doesn't he live here in California? I've seen his work and it's very nice. Thanks Rob.... once again.

JR-Rob is right about the Enfield based model 30
action and the Ruger Magnum.The Ruger would look the best.Also if your not in a big hurry you could get a MRC PH action, by getting an order in
ahead of time.Ed.

I went thru this sometime back and really wanted the 505 gibbs, even with all the issues mentioned above and settled on a cz 550 action. Yes, brass is expensive but at least there are 3 sources (well, maybe one is a little slow in delivery ) and for bullets, I plan to use Hawk for practice and reduce loads (i think these are around $0.75 each) and Woodleigh for hunting.

I noticed that acrabond and ahr offers inletted stocks fitted to the cz 550 action, so this might be a good way to get the walnut stock.

I haven't gotten to shoot my 505 yet to see if i made a good choice, we'll see...

regards,

steve

I talked to Ryan Breeding recently ( unimpressed) and have both seen and fixed some of his work( TIG welded second recoil lugs-yuck). No thanks! Dennis Olsen is in a different class. Heck, I learned an amazing amount about gunsmithing just by learning to duplicate Dennis's work! If you are satisfyied with two rounds in the box and one in the chamber( snap over extractor) ala Weatherby, then yes a CZ550 could probably be made to work. I know ED at AHR has built at least one.I'd really check out the feeding though. As much as I like CZ550's there are dimensional reasons why I would not reccomend building a 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs on one. Personally, I believe the very best results would be to base a 505 Gibbs on a GMA, Vektor, Johansen, BBK-01 or Enfield action. I built mine on a Vektor action from Butch Searcy and it required alot of time to get it to feed.-Rob

[ 11-10-2003, 19:18: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

So much to think about! The scary part to me is the fact that I don't have a good gunsmith around who I would trust to do some of the work. I looked at some stocks and the acra bonds look nice. Anybody have anything nice or bad to say about them? Thing is they don't really have the profile I'm looking for in a rifle like this. Pac nor would have to get the nod in this project for a barrel because they have treated so many members on this site well.... my head is starting to spin but I guess I just have to take it one step at at time and not rush. First things first, I have to decide what action I'm going with and think that I'm leaning toward the CZ. Keep the comments coming!

JR-You sound as if you like really get into
high horsepower calibers.Check out the 550 MAG
we are getting going.Easy to get brass and
make feed from magazines.Work in many easy to find actions.Ed.

Above adive is good. I found I am spending about that much for a rifle currently under production. Think from the muzzle to the butt and write down everything you will need. Like Jeffe had in his list, things like bedding compound need to be included too when working up your budget.

I also second the idea on a .500 Gibbs, before making the decision, you can go to Clymer reamers website and look at the dimensional differences between the .505 and the .500 (or .510) as he makes reamers for those.

For the difficult to construct calibers (505 gibbs, 500 jeff), I would consider a reputable maker such as Dumoulin Herstal:



Only $6895 base price retail.

hey, the model 30 is a great idea... i got to shoot one, in 30-06, yesterday... unfortunatly, it was had been his dad's.. or i think he would have "given" it away...

jeffe

Very nice rifle.. a little gawdy up top though to suit me...but I could manage.

Just got thinking about the CZ 550 with the american stock that will be out shortly. Could save some dough in the stock department if it was properly reinforced and bedded??? That would free up some money for other things.

Suggest checking out this site: Bowen Classic Arms .
$1400 + maybe $800 for a used Ruger = $2200
It is not as elegant as a bolt action rifle made from a machined bar stock from scratch proper size action, but then it is a lot less cost.

For me a "tough working rifle" feeds from the magazine, but if you are willing to forego that, I wonder if a Ruger No. 1 is an option. How much does it cost to pick up a used Ruger and send it off to Pac-Nor to be rebarreled? Wonder if Pac-Nor has a .51 Gibbs (that's what Clymer calls it) reamer lying around? Lilja? Lothar Walther?

I remember Cliff LaBounty was reboring Ruger No. 1's from .458 to .470 (saves barrel and sights), but I keep hearing he is very backed up right now, and only some Ruger No. 1's can be rebored to .510" because on some the quarter rib screw holes are drilled too deep?

The current edition of Guns Magazine (December 2003)has an article on .510" cartridges and rifles, including .500 Jeffery, .50-110, and .50 Alaskan, I think there is a Ruger No. 1 in .500 Jeffery in the article.

Well, they do kind of gulp the powder down, but it is not so bad if you feed them surplus. It is a little over three times as much as your .308, per shot.

Most guys I've talked to want the romance and history of a true 505 Gibbs in .505. The .510 varients just don't cut it for them. There is also always the resale value if you someday deceide to sell it. Remember most wildcats are not worth very much! Personally, I'd go with a 500 A2 on a CZ550 and shoot .50BMG pulls for the most bang for the buck. Any .505 Gibbs is just not a low buck rifle no matter what you do and you run the risk of wasting alot of money with gunsmiths who have really never built one before. The all time leader in "Rob my $5000 custom DGR by the famous gunsmith ------- won't feed reliably can you help me" is the .505 Gibbs. Usually the guy who actually might be half decent on other calibers, just hasn't spent the time to modify all the things necessary to make a Gibbs feed, or has come to learn that he needs very expensive custom parts because the stock parts just won't work. No matter how you cut it, it's not gonna be cheap, fast or easy.
The Ruger number 1 idea is not a bad way to go if you want a DGR. I would not even attempt to rebore one, due to the waiting time, and because new barrels are so cheap. The only thing is to properly reinforce the stock and swallow lots of Ibuprofen before firing.!!-Rob

The best thing for a guy thinking about these guns is to go to SCI and look at, handle and price as many as possible and get input from the dealers, custom gunmakers and professional hunters. It can really change the way a guy thinks. Better to change the way you think prior to spending $5K than after.