Has some-one out there got a load they use to fireform 375HH to 458 Lott? Also do you anneal the necks once this is done. 416 rem brass not an option, hard to get. Previously just used 3/4 charge of ADI 2208/varget, but wasting too much powder.


cheers cc

cc,

Have you considered bringing in Hornady 458 Lott cases from Huntingtons. As long as the order is under $100US then they don't need to do an export licence.

8697 458 Lott ( 50 Pack ) 30.10

Looks like you could bring in 150 cases before hitting the $100US barrier.

If you have not done this type of thing before it is quite simple. You phone them up and can pay by credit card over the phone. Or alternatively phone then up to confirm stock and then mail over bank cheque made for US dollars.

The cases will either arrive at your front door or be caught by customs departement and then you will need a B709 from from firearms registry.

Mike

375 into 458L cases can be fire formed easily. Prime case, load with 12 -15gr Red Dot powder, fill case with corn meal, pressing a small piece of paper into case mouth (helps keep mealin place). Fire in a safe direction, presto, 458 Lott. Then trim to lenght if needed. If the cases have been fired and reloaded/worked, annealing case mouths may help. I tried this with some old well used 300Wby, for grins,(into 458 Lott) about half came out ok and lost the other half. Treating the necks would have probly helped.

That said, buying Hornady brass is simpler.

Hog Killer

Hog Killer has it right if you want to use 375H&H cases. I tried around 15gr of Blue Dot and filled the case with toilet paper, but it really needs something else in there and the corn meal is a good idea. I might try some AP30 as well, which is close to Red Dot. I've also heard of potato chunks being used or a wax plug. Theses aren't "real" loads but they are dangerous so be careful.

If your after new Hornady cases I know of some available at around $65 per 50 plus freight to wherever you are. Buying direct from the States is the best idea. The form Mike talks about is free as far as I know.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

The B709 form is just basically saying you are "authorised" to buy gun gear....it is more or a less a currrency statement that you are a licenced shooter. If an export licence is required whether it be for cases that are over $100US in the order or if you are bringing a rifle in from the US, the B709 is sent to the US.

Mike

cc,

Will you only be shooting your 458 Lott with full power loads.

If not, you could work up some nice reduced loads with the 400 grain Speer bullet at say around 2000 to 2100 and the loads would fit into necked up 375 brass. With a bit of fiddling about with die settings, you can probably get the reduced load fired from the neck up 375 cases to shoot to the same point as when the reduced loads are used in the fireformed cases.

I use to do this when I had 358 STAs. From memory I had a load worked up that was around mid 70 grains of 2208/Varget and 200 grainers. It did about 2900 or so. I could use that load in necked down 375s and they shot to the same point when used in the fireformed 358 cases.

Mike

Mike,
I don't get it, what's wrong with full powered loads in necked up 375H&H cases?
Cheers...
Con

The best thing about different headstamps, is if you are loading two different velocities with the same or simular bullet. ie: 375/reduced load, 458L/full house load. Other wise case strenght should be the same.

Hog Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Mike,
I don't get it, what's wrong with full powered loads in necked up 375H&H cases?
Cheers...
Con

Nothing wrong with it. I believe Mike is just suggesting a way to get in some useful target practice while fireforming.

I believe Jack Lott made the .458 Lott to 2.800 case length because that is really close to what the .375 H&H becomes when it is blown out.

I think Jack Lott wanted an easy source of good brass before there was factory headstamped stuff.

Use the fireformed .375 H&H stuff just like you would the factory .458 Lott brass.

Thankyou everyone, good suggestions here. Have not ordered from the us before, may have to look into it. Won't i loose cases trying to open up to 45 from 37? could then use 300gr rems to fireform and have a shot also. Presently using 2gn uder max behind the 500gr, nice. Any other powder suggestions, or use back loads behind the 300gr?

cheers cc

Con,

I was just thinking that full power loads in the 458 Lott would not fit in a necked up 375 whereas reduced loads could be used in both necked up 375 and a case that had been fireformed.

Mike

cc

A mate of mine had a 450 Ackley and he was fine with necking up from 375 to 458.

You will find that when necking up and then fireforming the cases will shorten quite a bit, which is what RIP has mentioned with the 2.8"

But do yourself you a big favour and work up some loads with 400 grain Speers at around 2000 to 2100. Roos and pigs go down as if electrocuted and recoil is sort of 375 area.

In the 458 Winchester 70 grains of 2208 was 2000 f/s and 70 grains of 2206 was 2100 f/s with 400 Speers. Just a guess but 75 grains or so in the 458 Lott would probably give similar results and will nicely fit a neck up 375 case.

Mike

Come on guys, max lenght for the Lott is 2.8". Th max lenght for the 375 H&H is 2.85". .050" is only about the gap in a spark plug now days. (I think, been driving diesels for 20 yrs) The 450 Ackley is 2.85" this would be the only necked up round that might come up a little short.

Hog Killer

"Anneal before necking up and after necking down" was a Ross Seyfried tip. That will save lost cases.

I neck up .338 Lapua to .375 in one pass, then neck it up to .458 in the next pass. I haven't lost a case yet. No splits. The .338 Lapua brass comes from the factory with a nice annealed then polished appearance. I don't have to anneal that before necking up, as Lapua just got through doing that before it went out the door to me.

Remember the cast lead bullet that was dual diameter, with a .375 caliber base then a step up to .458 bearing surface? That was designed for fireforming while plinking.

I might start bullet casting just to get some of those. Mold source? Sumbuddy who know?

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Come on guys, max lenght for the Lott is 2.8". Th max lenght for the 375 H&H is 2.85". .050" is only about the gap in a spark plug now days. (I think, been driving diesels for 20 yrs) The 450 Ackley is 2.85" this would be the only necked up round that might come up a little short.

Hog Killer

What are you getting excited about? We didn't say they would shorten too much. I guess they will shorten about 0.025" when necking up, but the fireforming and blowing out the case body may add a little more shrinkage.

Maybe it will come out right in the 2.790" (trim to) to 2.800" right on the money.

As I said, I think Jack Lott designed it to be this way.

You can neck up or down 30/06 and 375 a lot in one pass.

But the stuff with sharp shoulder angles collapse. When I had a 6mm/284 I had to come to 6.5 first or the shoulder would collapse.

Wby brass is the same, the shoulder collapses if go more than one calibre change in a single pass.

Mike

When I fireform .375 H&H Winchester brass to .375 Weatherby, it only shortens 0.017".

When I was fireforming .458 Lott in the 1980's, I just loaded 220 grain Sierra FP's with regular/medium range H&H 235 grain loads. Then let them rattle down the barrel to give perfectly formed .458 Lott of just the right length, IIRC. I don't have records of measurements, and probably won't, since the Hornady .458 Lott brass is so plentiful in my locker now.

Ron,

I neber measured it but when I had 358 STAs the shortening would have been more than .017.

In fact from memory it was a bit less than the width of the cannelure on a 250 grain 358 Hornady. But I think the 358 STA has a shorter neck and is also more parallel than the 375 Wby. I think the 358 STA and 450 Ackley are about .505 on the shoulder.

By the way, I would prefer to have a 450 Ackley over a 458 Lott unless I was going to be a big cast bullet user....grease grooves covered

Mike

www.midwayusa.com is cheaper than Huntingtons for lott brass---so is www.grafs.com or www.cabelas.com and there's midsouth also to try---chris

You guys in Australia even have to account for the brass that you get for reloading? God that's awful! Who says Marxism is dead!

NFrame,

No, it is only if we bring brass in ourselves. Even then it is not an amount of brass issue.

The "amount" problem is coming from the American end. In other words, whether I buy a packet of 20 cases or 10000 cases does not matter out here. Well, not at the moment

I believe it was originally brought in when Clinton was in office but never enacted. Then Bush won office and it was enacted and it is a pain in the fucking neck for both sides.

What makes it even fucking worse, although this is understandable, is that a lot of American gun businesses don't know which type of gun related product needs the export licence.

For the Australian shooting ordinary calibres and projectiles etc it is not a problem as the various guns/ammo importers are bringing the stuff in and they obviously have some special bulk type export licence arrangement.

Can you imagine some terrorist is going to buy Horneber brass from Huntingtons in 505 Gibbs

Mike

Still it's sad the way your rights have been stomped on, and now we're helping. Aren't politicians the best!

One of the problems in Australia with gun laws is that Australia's population is concentrated in and around 5 cities.

The best way to visualuse Australia is to think of a country that is the same size as the US of A but with only 20 million people. However , the biggest cities, Sydney and Melbourne have 8 million people. 40% of the population in just two cities. We don't have the population spread as wide as in the US and the rural population is extremely small. For example, in our largest state, Western Australia, which would be about 1/3rd the size of the USA, the population is about 1,250,000 of which 1,000,000 live in one city, Perth.

So with our population being virtually all big city based you can see the problem we have.

Actually, the places like Huntingtons lose good business as well. I think in America companies get some sort of tax advanatages with exports and in addition because we are way down here we end up paying full retail prices for things we bring into Australia as we are happy to just get the stuff.

Mike

Mike375,
so you are saying necking up 375HH to 458, should work ok? I guess they need to be well lubed, inside the neck and out? If this is the case, would it be easier to use 300gr rems or the 405 rems, to fireform. I have some 2208 and 2206H on hand. Thanks for all the info. I actually emailed lock,stock, they had no 458lott brass and said it would be months away, as some trouble was encountered at the factory.
I guess i could buy some off some-one in the state's?

cheers cc

cc,

Well lubed inside necks and if they are fired 375s then run a bristle brush through the necks first. My mate with his 450 Ackley went from 375 to 45 in one go. That was with new brass. If you have trouble then a 416 expander will solve the problems by coming up in two stages.

If you work up load with 400 grainers at around 2000-2100 it will become your favourite load. Probably in the mid 70 grains of 2208, maybe 73 grains. In the 458 Win 70 grains of 2208 does 2000 and 70 grains of 2206 does 2100.

Such loads will easily fit your necked up 375s before fireforming. With a bit of fidding with load, primer, powder (2208 or 2206) etc you will get such a load shooting to the same point when it is fired in necked up 375s or brass that has beeen fireformed to 458 Lott dimensions.

Mike

G'day,
You shouldn't have any problems with new brass. I used to form 458 Lott cases out of new 375 H&H Win cases in one pass, before Hornady started making them. Make sure the cases are well lubed though, either Hornady or lyman spray lube seems to work well.
I did this for years, the only time I lost cases was in the field!
Having said that, Mike375 is right, it will be easier to use the Hornady cases, especially if you plan to hunt overseas! I got stuck badly in Zimbabwae a few years ago with a Win Mod 70 in 416 Rem, no cases availabe, well, I will make them out of 375's right? Wrong, now the case headstamp didn't match the rifle chambering at the customs check in at the other end. Bugger!
Anyone would have thought I was single handedly trying to overthrow the Mugabe regime, a very interesting question time indeed!
Lots of police, lots of shouting, not much listening to explanations.
They eventually accepted the story and let me go on my hunt, but life would have been a whole lot simpler with the right headstamped cases!
Just a thought.

Cheers, Dave.

I will go and buy some new win 375HH brass and have a go, thanks all.


cheers cc