I have a friend who wants this rifle. Any one have advice on what compact action would be the easiest? He doesn't mind push feed but I'll try to talk him into CRF if you guys know of a compact Mauser type that would work. Thanks

I saw a nice one on a converted model 93 mauser.

You can get the factory equivalent from Clark Custom Guns...they are building bolt-action .450 Marlins using either Remington or Winchester actions...either using your action or they will sell you a rifle ready to go. The .458x2" and the .450 Marlin are ballistic twins and you can buy ammunition and/or brass ready to go.

Bob, the 458X2" was designed with the 98 Mauser in mind! With a 450 gr bullets it is almost the same lingth as a loaded 30-06. All that is needed is to open the bolt face, and slick up the feeding. I had one of these, a few years ago,with a medium heavy 22" barrel, and express Iron sights. I mounted a 2X scope in a Pachmyer swing over mount. This was one of the best Black bear, over bait, or deep woods Moose rifles I ever owned.

DB is right about it being a ballistic twin to the 450 Marlin, but there is one thing you need to think about, and that is the likelyhood of the 450 Marlin haveing a long life span, or the brass, which can't be made from anything else, being avalible long term, is doubtful. The 458X2" will always be avaible since many cartridges are made on the parent brass. I wish I still had my rifle, and I think I'll build another on one of the several 98 actions I own. It's a great little cartridge, and can be loaded down to trapdoor pressures, or up to almost 458 Win Mag for big bears in the 98 mauser! Cheap to build, strong enough, Perfect for North America,and control feed! What could you ask for that would be better?

MacD37 and Db Bill, I checked out the 450 Marlin on their site. Nice looking rifles and at $1150 for a finished CRF mod 70 seems reasonable. By the time he buys the components and has a 'smith put them together he would have that much in a custom rifle. On the other hand MacD there are things to consider as you mentioned. How long will factory ammo be produced for the 450 Marlin? The reason I'm into this is he had bought a 700 classic from me in 350 Rem mag during one of my weaker moments to use as the bases for his 450X2. He sold it back to me if I would help him with decisions and acquiring components for his 450. If he had built the 450 on the Rem 700 he would have spent over $1000. (he gave me $500 for the 700) I'll give him all the info I can gather and let him decide. Thanks. Any other comments appreciated.

I just bought a .450 Marlin built on a Model 700(see my post below about the Baby-Boomer) but I won't be able to shoot it for about 10 days until all the paperwork goes thru here in California.

The .458x2" is a nice round but any rifle made for a wildcat suffers price-wise if you ever want to sell it plus you do have the hassle of trimming the brass back to 2" and then reloading is your only option as no one sells it.

Everyone is claiming you can't depend on the short-magnums being around and forget about the .450 etc etc but they all seem to forget that not everyone reloads and many are content with factory ammo. I don't think the .45/70 will ever die but the .450 Marlin will be around for a long time....but even if it does, 200 pieces of brass will reload enough to wear out a barrel and if you wanted to you could always have the barrel set back a bit and rechambered to the .458x2"

The .458X2" was a nifty idea when developed but with the option of the .450 in a bolt-action I don't see the purpose of it anymore...but I've been wrong before.

Gents,
I have a 450 American built on a -17 Enfield.
I know,I know,,,and yes I do plan on reaming it out later,,which is why I had it built on a -17 in the first place... But in the mean time it is a plenty powerful round in its own right. I took a bead on a 44mag steel spinner when I first took delivery....It punched a hole right through the 3/8'ths plate,pulled it right out of the ground and threw it a foot back. Broke the weld between the circle and the arm too. This is a 400 gr Remington SP delivered at over 2000fps. When my 50 Peacekeeper gets finished and the 35 Whelen that is next in line the American will get reamed to the Lott and a set of Redding dies for the American may go one the market...and then I just picked up a early vz-24........so ? As it is I am very happy with the performance of the Barnes round. I have copies of pet loads by ken waters and the 450x2" is written up very well. One tough S.O.B. has it chambered in a XP100. My Oh My. My 45-70 Contender is a unbraked 16",And it is ahem "Uncomfortable". I don't want a extra 200fps.
45nut

.45nut....how about posting some of those "Pet Loads"?

..450 marlin, in a bolt, is the same monster as a 458x2". In a lever action, the 450 has to be loaded a tad lighter, and you can't sit the 405's out as far in the lever.

But, if you like, you can put a 450 or 458x2" in just about any short action, and a dandy rebarrel job for a 350 remmag.
jeffe

Thanks Guys, I'll let you know what he decides.

I've got a nice 98 action burning a hole in my work bench. I was going to make another 416 Taylor. But, this sounds interesting. So between the two which would you choose and why? 416 Taylor or 458 2".

With the .416 Taylor you can usually get 2350 fps with a 400gr bullet (4900+ ftlbs of energy) and some have reported as much as 2400 fps.

Both the .450 Marlin and the .458x2" will top out somewhere around 4000+ ftlbs of energy. Basically a 25% increase in energy for the .416 over either of the .45s.

A 400gr bullet in the .416 will tend to penetrate better than a 400gr bullet in either of the .45s if you use a similar bullet but there are cast bullets available that will provide plenty of penetration for the .45s.

One advantage of the .450 and .458x2" is you can get the performance levels mentioned in a more compact package...shorter actions, shorter barrels, etc.

ramrod340,

The plus the 458 X 2 or 450 Marlin has is all those 45/70 style bullets. If you want to cast bullets Lee make the moulds in 45 but not 416.

So, for a play about gun I think the 458 has it unless you do what I have done and that is to get the 416 jacketed bullet making gear from Richard Corbin. Can't wait until December

Mike

Bob;

I have a 458X2 A in a SSK XP-100.Mine is 13" barrel with there brake on it.300gr Hornady at 2200fps and the 500gr Hornady at 1650fps.And it is a handful.

Brass is time consuming to make but easy.The thing about the 458 over the 450 is,brass is easy to find and easy to make,and the 458 is a custom job so you can have it chambered for 500gr bullets where as the 450 is not.Down side is dies are not cheap and may take a few months but if you order it at the same time as the gun then you should be in good shape.

Wade

My 458x2 is built on a vz24 action with a custom stock, williams peep, shaw barrel, and a total of about $600. It shoots beautifully and is my new bear rifle. I took a set of 458wm dies and cut them back- about $40 total rather than ordering and purchasing ready made.
Using a band-saw with fine toothed blade and a jig I made from a 2x6 and some plywood I pre-cut my brass to within 1/16th inch and use a Forster lathe-type cutter to finish reaming to the 2" Cartridge length. Works great, no trouble and very fast.
The rifle is very handy, shoots well and kicks like a mule with 500 gr. (way too heavy for any practicle use) cast bullets. I don't have a chrony but used the 45-70 starting ballistics and added little by little till I got stiff bolt lift and then backed off.
I highly recommend the cartridge and the VZ-24 is a great way to start.

Gents,
Was on a road trip til last nite and am just catchin' up..DB Bill and all- I am very fond of my Enfield as a 458 American,,however I will be sending it back to the 'Smith to become a 458 Lott. Especially now that a Lott is no more than a box of factory shells away. I already have a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 and a No1mk3 Enfield 45-70 and a 16" Contender in 45-70 and a few other 45's. I think the realm of power the 458 American covers I can match in one of my other guns. Butt the more I look at the Lott the more I see future bruising at the junction of my shoulder.
I do have a bit of a confession here also,if a man can't admit his mistakes he can't go forward.
I was mistaken as to which book I found the load data. It is found in the Big Book that happens to be one of my favorites: Wildcat Cartridges
My load is the 405 Rem SP,cut down R-P 7mag brass,Rem mag primer,55grs of RL 7 ,not chronographed yet but should easily pass 2000 fps. The max load listed is 57 grs in a Rebarreled Big Bore Winchester and is listed @ 2119 fps. Easily capable for moose and bear I would think.
I would go the 450 Ackley route if it was factory chambered instead of the Lott,but I doubt anything hit with the Lott will complain. Ever.
45nut