I just got to shoot my m70 safari classic for the first time today. What a hoot it was to shoot! It's a 375. I was expecting a lot more recoil than was there. This is the rifle that I was going to hunt buffalo with. I was looking to purchase a double later in the year, but my funding fell through until later next year,so I'm back on a budget for this year. A friend went with me to shoot, and fell for my rifle. I was thinking of selling to him and buying another m70, but in 458 this time. Can the 458 be turned into a 458 Lott, without spending a bunch of money? How expensive might this be, if it can be done? The Lott seems to be a very versatile round. Sorry if this has been addressed before, but I am still trying to figure out the search engine.

A good gunsmith can convert a model 70 458 to Lott for about $200. This would include doing the action work and rechambering. Some charge more,some charge less.
But to purchase a W70 in 458 will probably cost you more than you may be prepared to spend. Might be cheaper to rebarrel your 375 and have the action work done to it.

Another option, is to just go buy a CZ in 458 Lott.

Keith

If you reload, try using A2230 with 500 grain bullets in a .458 WinMag. YOu can easily acheive 2,150 to 2,200 fps in the Win Mag. You won't need more than that for buffalo.

Tim

My 24" M77 .458 Win gives me 2125fps with the 500gr RN InterBond with 66.0gr of RL-7/CCI250. No signs of pressure and you can still here the powder shaking in the case (not compressed).

With a 450gr premium or 480gr Woodleigh you should be able to achieve this or better in a standard length action... This is within 150fps of the Lott... I doubt your buff will notice the difference.

I'm with the 458wm guys. I have used one on buff and its more than enough. Its been fine for me for elephants too.

My loads with AA 2230 and 500gr Woodleighs are plenty for elephant at 2135fps and they are not near the top end, as Shumba points out.

I use H 4895 with 450gr North Fork flat point solids for elephants too and they have been phenominal at 2190fps. This load was pressure tested and its a lower middlin' load.

For buffalo I would use North Fork cup points instead of the solids, along with a good soft point such as the 450gr North Fork softs.

If you find your 458 Winchester, it will do all you could need. If you go the Lott route with CZ you'll have more of a great thing.

JPK

If you can some how afford a little more money up front get a synthetic stocked rifle from www.rifleactions.com and have it as a LOTT right off.

A super, 5 shot rifle.

You'll never say, "I should have.."

I've got a Win 70 in 375 H&H and I will not trade ,sell or rebarrel it-love that rifle! Not only capable as a DGR, but it could double as a plains rifle if needed. Keep the Winchester if you can because I understand there might not be anymore American made. If you just want the Lott chambering scrape together about $750- or so and get the CZ 550, It will be hard to beat for the money. R.

What they said on the 458 WM. My CZ 458 gives me 2200 with a Barnes 450 banded solid and 60gr/RL7 with no powder compression. Everyone seems to be 458 Lott crazy now. How in the world did all the old timers ever manage? I fooled around some with a Lott in a M70. For me, there was a quantum leap in recoil going from 2150/500gr to 2400/500gr, from tolerable to very uncomfortable. In an awkward field shooting postion the hotter Lott loads really hammer you and you find it hard to make a good shot when you know you are going to get whacked. Most times we just loaded it down to 2150 to make it more tolerable. Use the 458 WM a while before you run out and rechamber it. I think you will find it is all you will need.

You guys and this big bore stuff have me hooked! I think that I am going to sell or trade the Winchester and look for a CZ hogback in 458 win.

Keep the Winchester if you can. Dave

DO NOT!!! sell that Winchester. You own one of the last American made M70's.

The new ones WILL be:
a. more expensive
b. most likely involve more "improvements" (read modified to allow it to be built more cheaply)
c. have all the appeal and resale value of a Yugo
d. compare the "new and improved" Remington M798 to the ones from two years ago (pre-Rem importer
Charles Daly)

I repeat DO NOT!!! sell that winchester!!!

Rich
NRA Life Member
DRSS

I'm with Rich, If you sell that 375, it will come back and haunt you! During my Tanzania buff hunt, my best friend was using his m-70 with my handloads using 300 gr. Swifts. We were very impressed by the performance on his two buff. I have a Lott and it is fine, but with available powders nowdays a standard .458 is practical, effective, and can be made up into a slimmer, lighter gun for less money. No matter what, I would keep that .375, and if I was going back to Africa and limited to one rifle, it would surely be the .375. Just my .02.

I appreciate what the M-70 represents, but the stock doesn't fit me very well. I didn't realize it untill I made the mistake of throwing up one of the hogback CZ's, and it came up to my eye like it was made for me.

Hello,
Could not agree more on the virtues of the 375 and would only say that with the 458 Lott, you also have the 458 Winchester. Practice with the lesser recoiling 458 loads and yet have the ability to go "all the way..." with the Lott loads.
The current offerings by CZ are really quite low dollar compared to others and not a bad value at all and leaving the Winchester "as is" and purchasing the CZ 458 Lott gives you a whole bunch of versatility or "bang for the buck." Good luck whichever way you go.

With Modern powders the winchester is fine. BUT if you are buying a CZ, or a rifle built on that 550 action, i would take a .458 Lott - for vastly improved reliability.

I dislike rifles chambered for rounds intrinsically too long for the action- like a .458 Lott built on a standard M70 action where you have to hook rounds under the rear reciever ring to get them into the magazine. In a country where you have a choice...

You don't need anything bigger than a .375 for africa, but a .458 is easy to download and can be fun to play with. Loaded to .45-70 specs your african DGR makes a geat hog/black bear/whitetail in close cover gun.

The Three and six bits is probably the single greatest rifle cartridge in existance ..... However the 458 win mag is wonderful . Its really nice ... Its not the big problem Mr Lott thot it was.... But the Lott is faster or simular with much less pressure.......If I could only own one rifle or firearm it would be a 458 Win Mag.......But for most people ,[who arn,t into the man wounder ] , the 375 IS the round.............I would bet that if you get rid of your 375 you will regret it unless you replace it with another, 375.... gumboot 458,, out

I went through the same drill as you. If you do not like the Winchester, sell it for something you will use. Any of the calibers you mention are fine for any African dangerous game.
The PH's on our last trip carried a .375 H&H in a Winchester push feed, a .375 H&H in a Remington M700, and a .458 Lott in a Ruger M77.

I asked each which was best each said - the best gun is the one you shoot the best and have confidence in.

I agree. Shoot what you like. Sell the rest.

Collecting guns for the sake of having a gun safe full of guns is a waste of money. Get one or two, shoot them well and leave the rest to collectors.

I have decided to sell my Winchester. I don't think that I have ever come out on top of any deal that I have ever made. Just me, I guess. Help me out here. What do you think is a fair asking price for this thing. I paid $1100 for it new. I had it bedded and a 4 lb. trigger job. Talley bases and low rings. Twenty rounds thru it. Dies. Help??????????

If you've got a good rifle that you like and fits you well I'd keep the .375 H&H personally... It's just the most wonderful all-purpose round and will get the job done on any game you seek if you train with it and know it well. Unless you do a considerable amount of elephant shooting i don't see what more you need as a sportsman.

If you were to ask him I'd bet John Taylor would advise you to keep the .375 H&H for occasional use on the biggest game and as an all-purpose rifle it's the very best. With just one particular .375 of his Taylor dropped over 100 elephant and several hundred buffalo, so it obviously gets the job done. I'd dare say for most any of us that means it's quite capable...

quote:

Originally posted by GaryG:
I have decided to sell my Winchester. I don't think that I have ever come out on top of any deal that I have ever made. Just me, I guess. Help me out here. What do you think is a fair asking price for this thing. I paid $1100 for it new. I had it bedded and a 4 lb. trigger job. Talley bases and low rings. Twenty rounds thru it. Dies. Help??????????

You ought to shoot it a little more. It will cost you nothing but the ammo. I hope you load for it. Then if you are still unhappy cut it loose. Remember that an iron sighted rifle usually feels different to point than one with a scope. The CZ hog back you picked up will too.

Thank you all for the input. I appreciate it. My Dad and I will be going to Africa next summer. We want to do a two buffalo and five plains game hunt. I have a Ruger in .350 rem mag, which should be good for the plains game. I bought the winchester 375 for the buff, and the just in case. I just can't get the winchester's stock to throw up right. I could restock the winchester to fit better, but now I have even more money into it. I am thinking that I can buy the CZ hogback that fit so much better, and get it in either 375 or 458. By the time I modify the winchester stock, I could darn near buy a CZ in BOTH calibers. It is tough when a guy can't just go somewhere and try everything out first!