well F!!!!!!
After about 300 rounds, my 500 jeffe split the stock. I didn't have a second recoil lug. I WILL on the next go round.

what happened?
was at the range today, right after work, with my 535@2200 practice loads, having a nice time. The gun was shooting well

About round 10, i got a "weird" smack in the face. Okay, not hard, not barrel flying down range... looking at the 50 yard target, it was 7" high and right.... after 9 in a 3" offhand group...

well, I think.. crap, i pulled that one...

and opened the bolt.. it stopped about 1/5 the way back... okay, now I am concerned... looked down, and the rear of the wood was split... CRAP... looked at the forearm.. there was a 1/10th gap from the barrel... F!!!!!!!! this is bad

cleared the gun, headed home... tore it down at home... and the front recoil lug area and steelbed acraglas was SHATTERED

yes, i said SHATTERED.

I haven't torn it apart to see what happened to the cross bolt, but I am concerned that it broke.

live and learn I reckon...

I relied on the steelbed and crossbolt... i'll redo with a second lug and higher crossbolts...

crap, I was just getting to where I could shoot it pretty good.

one discouraged
jeffe

[ 04-03-2003, 05:26: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Yikes! Glad you are OK!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

AWWWW....Come On Jeffe...you LOVE building those things! Just think....this one will be WAY better!

Sorry to hear about your rifle! Could have been worse though!

That's the reason I haven't been playing with my Jeffrey as of late. I know I need a second lug, and I just haven't had the time to tackle such a task lately. I know if a piddly 458 lott needs dual lugs, the Jeffrey certainly does!

PS, have you ever read Jack Lott's article on stopper rifle stocks. I know one of the members scanned it in, and a search of this forum should yield a link.

[ 04-03-2003, 06:11: Message edited by: Paul H ]

...tore it apart... the steelbed "sugared" and the WHOLE THING had moved back 1/8" or so

yes, i did mix EVEN, as I use a pair of measuring spoons, fill to over flowing, scrap of, to have a perfect measure, each time.

guess i found the limits of the steel bed... the xbolt did NOT shear.

thanks for the good luck wishs...

and I am damn glad it was MINE, rather than anyone elses that I did...

jeffe

[ 04-03-2003, 06:15: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Jeffe,
Sorry to hear about your rifle. That was a real nice heavy stock so I'm a little surprised to hear that it broke. I hope your able to find another piece as nice or is it repairable?

Take care,
470 Mbogo

Jeffe-Have you considered a barrel recoil band,
like my Ruger 77, instead of the extra lug.
The 77 came with one when it was 458 Win.
I think they look neat.My 77 with 458 HE has
went 1900 rounds with no recoil shoulders in stock cracking. I got extra rings and used one on P-14 also.All the pyros here probably won't agree.But it is a strong system.Ed.

What a great article
http://www.swervingatom.com/accuratereloading/lott.html
Is there anything similar dealing with double rifles stocks?

Jeff,

I have found there is a point of dimishing returns when adding powdered metal to increase the hardness and strength of the epoxy matrix. Too much and it does what you describe, too little and it is undesirably flexible.

I find if you mix in your 1 part resin + 1 part hardener and 1 part + maybe a touch more is about the best you will get in terms of overall compressive strength.

When you do the recoil lug you may want to add a third tie down screw like CZ. I see reason for it and no reason not to.

I have questions about crossbolts myself. When cutting the holes for the heads this weakens the wood, unless the heads are thin enough to allow some wood to remain underneath (for that clamping action). I see they are there to combat the compression and take the brunt. I wonder if a block of steel that had been made very rough, with nasty filing or even lots of small cuts to allow greater grip area was glued in, would this work better? Then behind the block in areas of stress, the very fine threaded stainless steel screws, inlaid into the wood. This would keep the wood from spreading. I did this on my .500, I bent the screws into L-shapes and inletter the wood at the front and rear of the magazine well and epoxied all in. I visualized where the stress would be when the recoil force passes through the wood and that is where I put them. I can email pics if you want.

Jeffe- Been there and done that! Sorry!There is alot of temptation to try and get away without the barrel mounted recoil lug and unfortunately if the gun is actually shot enough like you and I do, there results are always the same. SPLIT STOCK! Your lucky it lasted 300 rds and you didn't get hurt!
I think next weekend I'm gonna be making up some more recoil lugs for a couple of folks. Give me your exact barrel diameter and I'll make one to fit. Anyone else who wants one let me know. The price is $50, but they are machined to the exact correct diameter for your barrel and THEY WORK! No Heavy Rifle leaves my shop without one!
I just installed one on my latest 470 MBOGO and I'll try and post some Pics.-Rob

I asked this question before, but no answer.
I have a 500a2, this is the way I bedded it.
I made the barrel channel extra deep and layed carbon fiber from the strat of the fore arm to past the recoil lug. I also have crabon fiber flock (cut up fiber like powdered steel)that was mixed with the bedding epoxy. It also has a recoil lug on the barrel, this whole thing ties the bedding from front to back. I think it will keep it from breaking the stock. It is a single shot and has the area behind the recoil lug filled with a block, so the stock is sloid from end to end. Please tell me what you think.

Jeffe,

Sorry to hear about your stock. While you are patiently inletting the next one, keep having fun with a fiberglass stock. You won't care about dragging that one through the brush or getting it rained on.

I haven't read that Jack Lott article yet, but I think it will likely save me from some mistakes that I otherwise would have regretted in the future.

Just a note for anyone wanting a bedding lug. I have used a Brownell's Ruger 10/22 on several rifles. They are contoured and come already tapped and with an attachment screw and estucheon(blued). They are about $15 and can be easily fitted to a heavy contour barrel. I sometimes cut them in two and make two lugs, then supply my own screw. I just solder them on and skip the screws.

I read the Jack Lott article back when it was first published and the jist of the article from my understanding was as follows. The cross bolts were installed to stop the expansion of the inletted wood from expanding outward do to compression upon recoil. To stop stock cracking in large bore heavy kicking rifles it is advisable to glass bed the action,instal the second recoil lug, instal cross bolts, instal and glass bed pillars for the action screws and make sure to relieve the tang area. When you instal the cross bolts it's a good idea to glass bed in any voids to make complete contact in the area. Rob was kind enough to make up a second recoil lug for my 470 and it's worked out beautifully.
Take care,
470 Mbogo

Only thing I will add to 470Mbogo's post is to relieve any rear contacting surface. I noticed this when redoing my .500 on the Enfield receiver. There are the two flaring portions under the rear ring, make two pretty humps in the Acraglass. I thought about it and took a Dremel and a snading drum on low speed to get some clearance. If those areas were forced back, they'd very easily spread the stock vertically through the web in front of the trigger.

By the way, I once tried using fiberglass stocks without a barrel lug and it just took the gun a little longer to pound the glass into fragments. Personally, I have also had great luck on a 505 Gibbs with putting the rear crossbolt behind the rear tang screw. I opened up the wood behind the mag box for no contact and it's worked out quite well. The crossbolts are even parralel.-Rob

Rob,

I asked a similar question about a crossbolt behind the rear screw on an Enfield, under the 'Lott pics' thread in gunsmithing. I was thinking of a (3rd) hidden crossbolt back there. Good idea or not, do you think?

Todd

Todd- I'd do it, particularily on a tough as nails hunting gun! I've looked at alot of Big Bore stocks by Johansen and others, the unifying feature seems to be a good barrel mounted recoil lug and a good crossbolt behind the action screw. Many don't bother with one behind the mag box at all ala original Rigby's. I kinda like the looks of two and particularily the one bhind the rear tang screw. I'ts worked so far for me!-Rob

Here's the Jack Lott article

Lott article

Here is what works:

1. two cross bolts glassed in...and 3 isn't too many...

2. Two recoil lugs, both glassed in the rear surface only..action glassed.

3. Twenty thousands clearance at rear tang..rear tang glassed.

4. rear of magazine glassed. Snug, not tight, fit of magazine box..

5. I use Marine Tex bedding compound from Brownells...I don't like steel bed that much..

This has worked for me, when accompanied with perfect inletting..I still believe the old Mauser lock screws used on the military bottom metal is a neat idea, but ugly I suppose...

I've got a Montana LH LA on order and plan to make a 416 Rem Mag out of it. I hadn't considered the recoil forces of this cartridge and its' ability to tear up a stock. I read Lott's article and wonder- does this caliber need the extra lugs, screws, etc.? I shoot all my guns a good bit, just walk out the back door and fire, so 3 to 400 rounds are a real possiblitiy before the first hunt with this gun occurs. If something can come loose I generally will find it before the first hunt, took 500 rounds to ruin the adjustments of a Weaver Grand Slam on my 338. I was thinking of either one of D'arcy Echols Masterpiece McMillan stocks or an Accrabond from Mel Smart, any advice would be appreciated.

Three crossbolts it is then. I was a little concerned, because I have the same basic stock as Jeffe -- in fact, since it's from the same place and the wood looks very similar, it might even be the same tree.

Thanks for the replies, and sorry to hijack your thread for a moment, Jeffe. Good luck with the stock.

Todd

Thanks everyone, especially for the best wishes and lack of INJURY.

I called henry, and we are going to do another one, just like this one, except he is going to do the front xbolt, very high, and I'll do the rest to fit.

I like the premixed steel bed, which is what I use, rather than try to mix my own... i seem to go overboard with the metal if i mix it.

I am going to add a third, a la Rob, and a hiddin or 2 xbolt and see what happens...

I'll do it a little more robust, and probably do a straightened bolt handle, just because.

Todd, Henry says he's got another piece for my replacement stock... just like the first.. must have been a great tree

jeffe

Jeffe,

I just posted some pics of my Enfield with a Talley bolt handle (Gunsmithing), set up like the Sig Magnum Mausers. I like it so far, although if I had your equipment I would turn my own with a bigger ball at the end.

I wouldn't scrap the first stock either -- with some epoxy and a few pieces of threaded rod, you'd at least have a nice looking beater to play with and take on rough hunts.

Todd

Lewis50,

In a 416 Rem. all you need to do is glass it and install two cross bolts...Same with a 404 Jefferys...

Ray,
Thanks for the information.

Update

I have the following work to do, over the next bit, with the parts now on hand

new extractor (longer)
3 pos safety
cock on open
new stock
recoil lug
f990 pad, that way I'll know

and mebbe a straight bolt handle

jeffe

Jeffe- Your on the right track! I'll have to post the detail pics on the second lug and mortise on my 470 MBOGO. If this stock ever splits, I'll be amazed!-Rob