My new CZ in 458 Lott has what looks like a pretty smooth bore but with just one round fired from a clean bore, the bore is coated with copper again. I've never had a bore collets this much copper before. After firing just 5 rounds, I have some serious cleaning to do. It took two days of scrubbing and letting it soak with copper remover solvent to get it clean from the last 5 rounds I fired in it. What should I do to help this situation ?

Sounds like your Lot could stand a fire lapping.

Stop cleaning it so frequently. So what if it has some jacket fouling? It's not a benchrest rifle.

George

I would suggest continuing to shoot it, as George says, but keeping track of rounds fired versus accuracy. Note the point at which the accuracy begins to degrade to an unacceptable level.

Second suggestion would be get something that cleans better than what you're using. If you have to soak the bore for 2 days after 5 rounds, maybe a different cleaner would help you out.

I can recommend Bore-Tech Eliminator from experience. Follow the directions on the bottle and you should be clean in LOTS less than 2 days. It's not designed so much as a "sit and let soak" cleaner, at least not for days at a time, but it is very aggressive with the copper and not at all with the bore.

Lapping can certainly help, but I would try these other things first.

I'm just the type that can't stand a bore that collects copper even if it's not anywhere as bad as this barrel is at the moment. Most of my shooting will be with cast bullets so I need a smooth bore. A bore that collects copper badly will also collect lead even worse. I guess I need to get some better copper cleaner.

tank,

My CZ .375 copper fouled horribly but stopped after about 500 rounds. I haven't been able to detect any difference in accuracy or POI, mine is extremely accurate and the sights are dead on. Ace Harware 10% janitorial strenght ammonia cleans better and much faster than Sweets, of course you have to use this quickly then get it out and get oil in the bore. I use WalMart spray carb cleaner which contains toulene & acetone to flush ammonia from the bore. I have no idea if this practise if safe for barrel steel or not but it doesn't seem to have damaged the CZ yet.

I clean rifles as more of a practical matter, not by looking down the bore, etc. When accuracy begins to fall off, I clean it. This will vary a hell of a lot, some of the new bullets like the TSX will fall off more dramatically than others, a bit of shooting will tell you this. I use Wipeout, followed by a Breakfree and a light couple of patches with JB on it. The JB's gets the remaining carbon fouling that the Wipeout won't handle and none of the products in this regimen stinks up the house. I certainly don't spend time looking at the bore with a scope when I could be shooting instead.

Wipe out will remove copper well for you.

If the copper fouling gets so bad the bullet won't spin, I'd worry about it. Every 20 rds run a patch with JB on it through the bore till clean.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by tank:
My new CZ in 458 Lott has what looks like a pretty smooth bore but with just one round fired from a clean bore, the bore is coated with copper again. I've never had a bore collets this much copper before. After firing just 5 rounds, I have some serious cleaning to do. It took two days of scrubbing and letting it soak with copper remover solvent to get it clean from the last 5 rounds I fired in it. What should I do to help this situation ?

A super match grade SS barrel from pac-nor will resolve the situation.

All my big bores foul more and more rapidly than my medium bores and small bores. I prefer to keep them clean -- nuisance. However, I've found that cleaning after a few rounds, then shooting again tends to reduce later fouling. Shooting over copper fouling doesn't seem to smooth the barrel as much. Just my 2 cents.

Dan

Get the Tubbs final finish lapping kits from Midway or elsewhere. Smoothes bore in 50 rounds.

Few rifles come ready with bores as smooth as they should be. I have only 2 rifles - both Accuracy International, that were properly lapped right out of the box.

This is one of the reasons for the build up of both copper and carbon on new rifles. And the reason you will hear the bench rest crowd talking about their barrel break in procedures. They are time consuming and tedious, and usually required a whole day or more at the range.

There are several variations of the procedure, but it is something like this:

-Fire one round. Clean until all of the carbon and copper are gone. Repeat this 4 (to 9) more times.

--Fire a string of 3 rounds. Clean after each strong until all cooper and carbon are removed. Repeat 4 (to 9) more times.

-Fire a string of 5 rounds. Clean after each string until all cooper and carbon are gone. Repeat this 4 (to 9 times)

At the end of each 1,3 or 5 round string, the last cleaning includes some JB or Isso to help with the lapping.

The other altrenative is to use the lapping kits - a set of about 50 rounds coated with increasingly finer bullet coatings.

The smoother the bore, the less fouling.

Or, you could just shoot it and clean after each session, so long as you understand that it will be a long session.

One thing that does save time - on any new rifle, clean it before you shoot it. You will be surprised at the copper you remove from a new rifle. If you shoot it without cleaning, it just lays more copper on top of a layer that is already there.

Tank,
You may find this thread interesting / relevant to your dilemma.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/645100744/m/112109616

fire lap

I have had a couple of rifles the fouled greatly. They were new barrels. After fire lapping the problem disappeared and the accuracy improved greatly.

Before the accuracy was OK for about 5 rounds on one rifle and 10 rounds on the other.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
A super match grade SS barrel from pac-nor will resolve the situation.

If they could communicate, I'd have one of their barrels.....slow and poor! I gave up on them.

Tank,

Did accuracy drop off? If not why are you worried, or are you am imbecile?

If you have a smith that you deal with, take it to him and ask him to lap the bore. Will do wonders.

quote:

Originally posted by ScottS:
Tank,

Did accuracy drop off? If not why are you worried, or are you am imbecile?

I just don't like rough bores. I'll do the fire lapping process and maybe it'll do okay.

Just got my .416 rigby. It CAME with copper fouling... worked to get it out. Took it to the range, my handloads performed beyond my wildest expectations. Barrel very hard to get clean... harder than my lott was to clean.

Most big bores seem harder to clean than smaller rifles.

The reason I've always understood that you want to keep a barrel clean is that the copper fouling covers a witches brew of caustic powder fouling, primer salts, etc, in contact with the barrel, which can cause problems when humidity rises. Certainly not like it was in the corrosive primer days, but still not good. Best to get it clean, in the long run.

Dan

vapodog,

All I did was make one phone call and everything was taken care of.

500grains,

You are right about the s/s super match. Excellent tube.