I was curious to see what loads anyone on here has that would be perfect for deer, black bear and moose for the 458 win mag. I know I can use my regular full power loads but that might be a little overkill. I want to carry and use the rifle as much as I can before I go to Alaska and other places. I do hand load but I'm thinking trailboss might be a bit underpowered with a 405 lead.
I'd like to find a load that uses a 350-400 grain without the need for wadding etc. and hit a velocity around 1500-1600 fps for a medium 45-70 load. Any help would be appreciated. I use aa2230 for my heavy loads but not a good choice for light loads. Thanks in advance guys. Oh, one more thing, can anyone recommend a good bullet for that load? I'm thinking the remington 405 jsp at the lower velocities. They detonate at 458 win full velocity. I've tested that one.

66.1 gr Reloader 7
350 gr RN Hornady Interlocks
CCI 250 primers
Not a 1700fps load, but one that uses 350 grainers.

My light load with the two different 458 Win Mags I had used the 350gr Hornady Round nose over IMR 3031.
Start with 60 grains and work up till you find the accuracy and recoil level you like.
Max load would be around 75 grains.

The Hornady 350gr RN fed perfectly and performed very well on game.

For a mid-range load I usually use SR4759 on most any caliber. This powder is bulky and will fill the case on its own. 5744 is of the same theme too,powders that are made for reduced loads. Your target velocity will be easily achieved.

If you are just interested in a lighter bullet load, I get 2500 fps with the 350 grain TSX and 69 grains of H4198. It cuts little clover-leafs too. Upping the powder enlarged the groups to 1 1/2" at 72 grains and gives 2700 fps in my 24" barrel. I backed that off to 71 grains, not because of pressure but to shoot to the same 100 yard POI as my 450 grain A2230 load. The 69-71 grain range all shot to the same group at 100.

I have used 350 grain Hornadys with the same load, but can't see hunting with them at that speed. Cheaper practice though.

i personally don't care for the 400gr woodleigh.. not very accurate in my guns...

rem 405 at 2000 fps is really mild and great for pigs, deer, and rabbits.

Can't remember the exact powder and charge, but both of my .458's did good on deer with the 350 grain Hornady's at 1900 maybe 2000 fps.

Have you checked with our own michael458 yet?

There are some amazing bullets from Cutting Edge Bullets in the light for caliber weight that I think would work lights out for your application.

Great loads guys, I appreciate the info very much. Drew, I have not consulted with Michael on this. I might have to pm him if he doesn't see this post and chime in. The last time I had a post on here about the 458 he and another guy got into quite a debate! I think I got lost in the shuffle. Good info though. Thanks again guys.

I have little experience with the .458 Win on PG or deer size animals, but have used the Lott and Ackley a bit..I shot a few deer and a couple of bear, two Nilgai with the Ackley many years ago and I used the same load that I hunted DG with, same with my 404 and 416..The big bores bored a big caliber size hole through the animals, wasted precious little meat, if you kept the shot behind the shoulder, left real good blood trails, and they made few tracks. Never saw the need to develope a specific load for the smaller animals.

Just bought a .458 WM that I will use on plains game, deer, etc., since my favorite PH says it is inadequate for Buffalo and Elephant.

Not a problem! I've always found that a large bullet does quite well. For example, a .400 grain bullet will do quite fine on all plains game. It also does fine on whitetails and turkeys. Never shot a javelina with a .416, but a .458 Lott is adequate for javelinas, especially with a perfectly executed brain shot.

I suspect there is little a .458 Win. Mag. truly can't handle if you do your part.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lavaca:
Just bought a .458 WM that I will use on plains game, deer, etc., since my favorite PH says it is inadequate for Buffalo and Elephant.

If the .458WM of 2014 isn't a dangerous game caliber then nothing else is either..

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Just bought a .458 WM that I will use on plains game, deer, etc., since my favorite PH says it is inadequate for Buffalo and Elephant.

If the .458WM of 2014 isn't a dangerous game caliber then nothing else is either..

True that...

When I had .458s I used .45-70 loads in three levels: trapdoor, 1886, marlin 1895. Worked fine and a pleasure to shoot.
My model 70 I bought in the '90s had the serial number end with xxx458. Anyone know its whereabouts? It had the chamber lengthened to .450 Watts and a Griffin and Howe pad added as well as their side mounts.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Sean1975:
Great loads guys, I appreciate the info very much. Drew, I have not consulted with Michael on this. I might have to pm him if he doesn't see this post and chime in. The last time I had a post on here about the 458 he and another guy got into quite a debate! I think I got lost in the shuffle. Good info though. Thanks again guys.

quote:

I was curious to see what loads anyone on here has that would be perfect for deer, black bear and moose for the 458 win mag.

Gotta love .458 Caliber, there are literally 100s of bullets to play with, some good, some practice, some for shit, some totally incredible beyond belief...........

DEER:....... Just about anything you can use would be dandy...... various 300 gr HPs out there, even run them slow to 2000-2200 fps would blow them down easy.... The 325 Hornady Pointy thing is a great bullet, Flex tip, that's what they call it... Very good bullet, don't need a lot to knock deer out with .458.............

BEAR:.... I might opt for a bit better bullet for this, but there are many many good standard bullets that would do fine here too for black bear, the 325 Hornady I mentioned would work fine, 350 Hornady mentioned is a great bullet as well.... I do not like the 405 Rem bullet much for anything heavier than deer or pigs, it blows up easy over 1600-1700 fps impacts.... I know, been there done it, both bear and kudu.... Might even opt for some of the premiums on bear, 300 North Fork Soft, 325-350 North Fork CPS, 250-295 CEB Raptors...... All extreme........ Big bears, for sure premiums, and up the ante some to the 325-350 North Fork CPS, both 250-295 CEBs will do, plenty of penetration for big bears, 350 TSX would be a choice as well for a conventional bullet..... 400 Swifts, and 400 North Fork Softs.........

Moose Plus: Premiums for moose, big and brawny buggers...... Might up the ante to 295 CEB Raptors, again 325-350 North Fork CPS would do great, lots of penetration with these, 350-400 gr Premium Softs, North Fork top of the list of course, Swifts, TSX.... All good...........

One of my favorite rifles for this sort of thing would be my 458 B&M, 18 inch gun, 6.5 lbs, shooting any of those bullets. 458 caliber hard to beat overall................

Michael

Given that the CEB's design is to fracture and throw off petals, I'd avoid them for moose.

Personally, if I was going to use my 458, I'd use the 350 grain X bullet for moose.

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
Given that the CEB's design is to fracture and throw off petals, I'd avoid them for moose.

Personally, if I was going to use my 458, I'd use the 350 grain X bullet for moose.

AK.... I think maybe you misunderstand the Raptor design, just because it shears blades does not mean penetration is a problem, penetration increases, not decreases because of this...... The 295 #13 Raptor will out penetrate the 350 gr TSX.... Once the blades shear, the remaining bullet penetrates like a full .458 Solid Wadcutter, driving extremely deep, and straight...... For example the 420 gr Raptor which would be used for buffalo in 458 Win, will out penetrate all of the conventional 450s-500 gr soft points, including the TSX, Swift, North Forks, all of them........

While most likely the 350 TSX would be found on the far side of a broadside moose, very likely that the 295-300 Raptors would exit depending on bone and angle of course for both........ I like the 350 TSX, and it would be a great choice as well.... Another great one would be the 400 North Fork Soft..... Both very serious bullets for missions that Sean might embark upon.....

I could not find the photos of the 350 TSX, but according to my data penetration is 18 inches in my test medium as opposed to the below photos of the 250 Socom and the 300 ESP Raptor........






Michael

And lest we forget – aside from the increased penetration of the ragged edge shank, once the petals have sheared from the shank they radiate outward as slicing blades in a rotational manner penetrating and causing damage to internal organs beyond the path of the bullet shank.

I realize some individuals have ‘poo pooed’ the concept of this additional potential damage yet Michael, and others, have posted photographs of the damaged organs caused by the bullet shank and the independent sheared blades…

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
Given that the CEB's design is to fracture and throw off petals, I'd avoid them for moose.

Personally, if I was going to use my 458, I'd use the 350 grain X bullet for moose.

AK.... I think maybe you misunderstand the Raptor design, just because it shears blades does not mean penetration is a problem, penetration increases, not decreases because of this...... The 295 #13 Raptor will out penetrate the 350 gr TSX.... Once the blades shear, the remaining bullet penetrates like a full .458 Solid Wadcutter, driving extremely deep, and straight...... For example the 420 gr Raptor which would be used for buffalo in 458 Win, will out penetrate all of the conventional 450s-500 gr soft points, including the TSX, Swift, North Forks, all of them........

While most likely the 350 TSX would be found on the far side of a broadside moose, very likely that the 295-300 Raptors would exit depending on bone and angle of course for both........ I like the 350 TSX, and it would be a great choice as well.... Another great one would be the 400 North Fork Soft..... Both very serious bullets for missions that Sean might embark upon.....

I could not find the photos of the 350 TSX, but according to my data penetration is 18 inches in my test medium as opposed to the below photos of the 250 Socom and the 300 ESP Raptor........






Michael

You misunderstand my reasoning.

I'm absolutely sure that your bullets will out penetrate a TSX. (That said, if penetration were my goal, I'd not be looking to a light 458 bullet). But the reason I'd not choose a CEB for a moose gun, is the fact that your bullet is designed to shear petals, and throw fragments. While that increases the damage done, it also reduces the amount of meat, which is exactly what I don't want, when shooting moose.

quote:

You misunderstand my reasoning.

Indeed AK you are correct, I did in fact misunderstand your reasoning...... And I won't argue that point too far with the exception that on a moose size animal those blades will not reach the meat on the far side of the animal, and will all be caught up in vital tissues, heart, lungs, and other innards.

You might indeed destroy some meat on entry, but zero on exit other than the "caliber" size hole that is the exit of course.......

Thanks for clearing your reasoning for me......

Michael

For What you are shooting, I'd load a full house, heavy bullet and get within range. I shot an elk with a .416 Remington one year, here in Colorado just to see what damage it did. 350 Barnes TSX and killed it just as quick as with anything else, BUT I tore up a whole lot less meat than even a .30-06 would have done.

Why not just shoot the 500 grain bullet it was designed for? Why does everyone try to fix what ain't broke?

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Why not just shoot the 500 grain bullet it was designed for? Why does everyone try to fix what ain't broke?

Recoil

Sean,
Spot on recoil could be a factor! but IMHO or not so humble sometimes, I believe that folks that are concerned about recoil of the .458 which is definatly right up there, that they should be shooting a lesser caliber..and those owners of 458s out their are abundant in the real world.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Why not just shoot the 500 grain bullet it was designed for? Why does everyone try to fix what ain't broke?

Likely because the .458 caliber rifles, or for that matter any big bore rifle, become very versatile when using different bullet weights and shapes eliminating the need to use multiple rifles in different calibers during a single hunt for varying types of game.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

You misunderstand my reasoning.

Indeed AK you are correct, I did in fact misunderstand your reasoning...... And I won't argue that point too far with the exception that on a moose size animal those blades will not reach the meat on the far side of the animal, and will all be caught up in vital tissues, heart, lungs, and other innards.

You might indeed destroy some meat on entry, but zero on exit other than the "caliber" size hole that is the exit of course.......

Thanks for clearing your reasoning for me......

Michael

Well, I was thinking more for the not so perfect conditions, like if you have to shoot through a shoulder or something, not so much broad side shots. But I think I'll give them a try in my Sabatti 45/70, which is regulated with a 325 leverevoution bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Just bought a .458 WM that I will use on plains game, deer, etc., since my favorite PH says it is inadequate for Buffalo and Elephant.

If the .458WM of 2014 isn't a dangerous game caliber then nothing else is either..

True that...

If your PH doesn't think a 458wm is adequate for buff and elephant I think I would be looking for another PH.

Paul Grobler, Richard Harland, Barry Duckworth, Ron Thomson... Just those four guys killed about 20,000 elephants with the 458wm.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Just bought a .458 WM that I will use on plains game, deer, etc., since my favorite PH says it is inadequate for Buffalo and Elephant.

If the .458WM of 2014 isn't a dangerous game caliber then nothing else is either..

True that...

If your PH doesn't think a 458wm is adequate for buff and elephant I think I would be looking for another PH.

Paul Grobler, Richard Harland, Barry Duckworth, Ron Thomson... Just those four guys killed about 20,000 elephants with the 458wm.



JPK

+1