It seems that I am having trouble with my double. If I use Norma brass, I get two firings (one fresh, one reload) and then I risk case head separation. If I use Bell brass, the cases won't eject and need to be tapped out with a long wooden dowl rod. I have used CH4D dies as well as RCBS with the same results. I do not ever overload. What could be some of the problems that could be causing this?

Thanks,

Only Norma brass I have used has been in 9.3x74R and I rarely could get more than 2 loadings from a case. I also used the same brass to form 8x60RS with the same results. Only 470 brass I use is Federal and Bell (Mast) and have had zero problems with either in my 470 Merkel. I use RCBS almost exclusivly.

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Originally posted by rcasto:
It seems that I am having trouble with my double. If I use Norma brass, I get two firings (one fresh, one reload) and then I risk case head separation. If I use Bell brass, the cases won't eject and need to be tapped out with a long wooden dowl rod. I have used CH4D dies as well as RCBS with the same results. I do not ever overload. What could be some of the problems that could be causing this?

Thanks,

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Rcasto, what rifle are you loading for, and what bullet are you useing? Addtionally if your groups are acceptable, how do they group? Are the left barrel shots hitting on the left of the group, and the right barrel hitting on the right of the group? What powder are you useing?

The reason I'm asking these questions is, eventhough the brass acts differently for each brand, it sounds like you have a pressure problem! In the early days of the mono-lithic solids, I experienced the same type problem with different brass. Today we know it is not a good idea to use regular monolithic solids in doubles, the North Fork being the exception, IMO.

The Norma"s short life is not news, that simply comes with the terratory, IMO. The bell brass is indicateing more of a pressure porblem. What is fine in one double will not be a good load in another. The same goes for different brands of brass! Some over pressure rounds will regulate quit well in some rifles, but that doesn't mean they are good for the rifle!

I have a 9.3X74R double rifle, and NORMA brass is cheap, so I buy it in bulk, once I find "THE" load, I buy 100 rds of Norma from HDS for around $100, and load it all, with the sweet load, then kick the brass into the weeds, and keep hunting! I understand the 470NE brass is another matter, and if you are useing the same load in both brands of brass, you may be overloading the bell brass, because BELL is heavier brass than the NORMA, so the load used in the Norma, may be a little too hot in the Bell! Bell is worth saveing, and that is where I would adjust my loads.

Let us know what you find! Good luck!

Mac,

I am using Woodleigh bullets and IMR 4831.

I use about 2-3 gr less when I use the BELL brass for the reasons you mentioned.

The rifle regulates well with the right barrel shooting just a little high. The last time I put it on paper the shots would have been in the same hole at 50 yds had the right barrel not been a little high.

Outside of this rifle, I have had very good success and many multiple reloadings with Norma brass.

I am somewhat inclined to believe that the chambers may be a little oversize causing the brass to strech quite a bit when resized and the BELL brass, being somewhat thicker, gets stuck.

MR.Casto:
Wich brass fails to eject? The Norma or the Bell brass.
Paul K

What rifle are shooting the brass in ?

Paul K
The Norma brass ejects fine but can be reloaded only once.

The thicker Bell brass fails to eject and must be tapped out with a dowl rod before the rifle can be opened fully.

Taking a set of calipers to the fired brass and comparing it to the resized brass shows that the shoulder moves forward .04" in one barrel and .0385" in the other.

To me this seems like a lot. I don't know what's acceptable in a double, but in a good bolt gun I have found this growth to be measured in thousanths, not hundreths.

I've been shooting Bell Brass and it is going fine with several reloads.
what if you Anneal the Norma before you start? Maybe try just sizeing until it will chamber?

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Originally posted by rcasto:
Mac,

I am using Woodleigh bullets and IMR 4831.

I use about 2-3 gr less when I use the Norma brass for the reasons you mentioned.<<SNIP>>


I am somewhat inclined to believe that the chambers may be a little oversize causing the brass to strech quite a bit when resized and the BELL brass, being somewhat thicker, gets stuck.

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The load should be 2-3 grains less with the THICKER BRASS. The outside measurement of the sized brass being the same, and brass that is thicker, consequintly heavier, has less internal capacity, so will build higer pressure with the same load as in the lighter brass! The load should be 2-3 grns LESS in the Bell BRASS, which has less capacity.

Also, are you useing any filler?

quote:

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Originally posted by MacD37:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rcasto:
Mac,

I am using Woodleigh bullets and IMR 4831.

I use about 2-3 gr less when I use the Norma brass for the reasons you mentioned.<<SNIP>>

<<SNIP>>

Also, are you useing any filler?

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You caught my brain fart! I meant to say Bell and have edited my previous post. Thanks.

As for filler, none is needed.

It's a puzzle for sure!

The shoulders growing forward may be a clue! I would try neck sizeing only till the brass will simply drop into the shortest chamber, and headspaces on the shoulder, as well as the rim, load that way. If this doesn't do anything, the rifle may be off face, letting the barrels move forward on fireing. It doesn't take much to destroy brass. The first sign of this is the rim being bent out of line with the case body. Roll the case accross a glass topped table to see if the rim seems to wobble during the roll!

You are no doubt aware of the check for off face, but for the benefite of those who aren't..........., Take the fore end off the rifle, turn the rifle up side down, push the top lever to the open possition, and hold open, now shake the rifle side to side. If any movement, of the barrel set, is found, the rifle needs tightening. Worth a try!

Good luck, and let us know what you find!

I shoot a 470NE Chaupis. I like the Bell brass best. With Norma I can reload 6 to 8 times and have case failure. I have fired a bell case 20 times as a test, with a full charge load and it still looks perfect, to my surprise. CHEERS