I owned a 505 Gibbs on a Magnum Mauser action stocked by Sterling Davenport for a while. The rifle was originally made to order for Mark Sullivan. It had a 22" barrel and weighed 10.5 lbs. It was stocked for Iron sights and Kicked like a mule. I can usually shoot anything up to the 458 class off the bench fairly well. This rifle would give me a headache in 3 shots or less. The man I sold it to sent it back to Davenport where he modified the rifle. He put a slotted type muzzle brake through the barrell band area of the front sight. I think he may have added a recoil reducer. The man that owns it is 5'10" and weighs 175 lbs. He used it to take two elephants and a lion as well as several buffalo. I dont want to spend that much money again just to find that I can't tolerate that level of recoil. Is there anyone that has made a 505 of reasonable weight with modifications, that will attenuate the recoil of this beast.

You have your chance at another one of Sterling's rifles, this time in .500 Jeffery. It shouldn't kick nearly as much.

GunsAmerica

Regards,

Terry

If a classic Jeffrey is to be made, it will be on the lighter '98 action and the recoil will be indistinguishable from a .505, especially if it is loaded to the usual 2,400 fps. The .505 has only 12% more capacity than the .500 and is rarely loaded to top pressures.

Just load it down. You don't have to fire a bullet at 2500 fps. Get a nice heavy bullet and chunk it along at 2100 or so. Experiment with different powders. Find a slow powder that'll get you what you want. 10.5 pounds is kinda light. Go 12, only 1.5 more.

Thanks for the responses. How have others on the forum altered or designed their rifles to keep both the weight and recoil down to manageable levels?

My hunting partner's dad bought one several years ago and the thing was 10# and rooked us into firing the damn thing and it was too light!! Everybody involved had headaches for a few days (concussion maybe?). He put tungsten rods in the fore-arm and the butt to increase the weight to 11 3/4# and it was shootable for about 15 to 20 factory loads. If you shoot that many rounds, you are going to get a headache anyway.

IB404,
If you had, as you say, a custom fitted stock and the rifle weighed in at 10.5 pounds "dry", then it may simply be that you have taken one step beyond your personal threshold. No shame in that. My .505 is roughly 9.25lbs or a touch more and about 10 lbs with the CZ mounts and 2.5x Leupold Compact scope. I have a very well fitted custom stock, with a single mercury tube. No break or magnaporting. I use the 570 grain "X" and 600 grain Barnes Super Solids at 2,325fps. I am O.K. with this but, with this combination, have reached my thresholds for weight in an all day hunting rifle and satisfactory recoil management. The big 50's are worth getting used to, if such is within your capability but are certainly not an imperative, for anyone. My only regret is not having been able to hunt Africa as a younger man and used such rifles over a longer period of time.

Frankly, I don't consider the recoil of a properly built 505 Gibbs to be anywhere near intolerable. Follow thw std recipe of proper stock design ( i.e. stock recoils back in a straight line not up and out), F990 pad, EFFECTIVE muzzel brake and two or three mercury recoil pads in the butt( built specifically extra wide for spreading out the recoil). A barrel contour sufficient to yield a 12- 13lb rifle which will balance right under the front action ring, with a leupold compact scope and you will have nothing to fear from a 505 Gibbs. I let my 18 year old son shoot mine with full tilt boogie loads and it doesn't bother him at all.-Rob

Just on the mercury recoil reducers. I read an article in a mag about a guy that made his own. I rang around some places and found that here in Australia mercury is very hard to find. Does anybody make these things?

Bakes

Robgunbuilder,
"properly built" is subject to definition. What is properly built to you may not constitute a hunting rifle for the next guy. No offense intended, of course.

I see quite a few fellows saying they shoot this caliber or that but then disclose that they are referring to extremely heavy rigs, invariably with muzzle breaks and the like. This is mixing apples & oranges when it comes to hunting, in my view. With plenty of gunweight, muzzle breaks and such, one can shoot about anything. A decision must be made by the individual, as to what he is willing to lug around a good part of the day, in the African sun. In other words, what is a hunting rifle?

[ 09-22-2003, 16:04: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

RodGunBuilder

I understand where you are coming from, however I don't consider a rifle in the 12-13 lb. range an easily transportable hunting weapon, one to be carried all day by yourself. These weapons are carried far more than are ever shot. There should be an alternative program we can put into play here to have recoil abatement in a reasonable weight rifle. I could be wrong, there may not be anything but weight that will do the job, I was just fishing for other options as I would like to make another 505. I already shoot a pre-64 458 win.mag. Super Grade and 458 Lott custom on a pre-64 model 70 action.

T.Carr, Thanks for the link to GA. Barnet is asking twice what that rifle cost to buy from Sterling in Tucson. It looks similar to my 505 Gibbs, mine had circassian walnut.

Anybody? Anybody know where to get a mercury recoil reducer?

Bakes

Galaxy Enterprises, Inc.
3167 Milky Way
3rd Planet from Sun

Email: MikeMercury@HOTMAIL.com
.
.
.
.
.
. I'll find out and get back to you!

Bakes:
Brownells gunsmithing catalog has quite a few different models llsted. www.brownells.com

lb 404,

I don't know much about Mr. Davenport's work, but I thought $9,500 was pretty pricey for a used gun. Barnett must be a little crazy to try and sell it for twice the price of a new gun.

Here's link to Barnett's website Barnett

I wish he knew what caliber he has, he lists it a "500 Jeffries" instead of .500 Jeffery.

It's not a very nice piece of wood, in my opinion.

Regards,

Terry

[ 09-22-2003, 18:54: Message edited by: T.Carr ]

My jeffe is 10.25, dry. It's got no recoil tubes or brakes...

at 2250, it'll get your attention, especially since 99% of you aren't anywhere near my size, and therefore teh stock is too long.

I can shoot 20 easy at that load, and 30 if i want to feel punchy.

at 2400, 10 is the max for me, to keep them in a 6" circle at 50, off hand...

jeffe

If you can carry a 10.5 lb rifle all day in the African sun ( i.e.sitting in the hunting car 95% of the time) then I think it's just possible to carry a 12-13lb rifle just as far, particularily if the recoil level is such that you can shoot it accurately without being totally afraid of it . I honestly don't see too many people with light 505 Gibbs rifles at the range practicing. Personally, I use muzzel brakes even more frequently on light guns and pay even more attention to how they are built. You are absolutely correct in that what is good for me may not be good for you, however, I've actually hunted in Africa , on foot all day ,tracking buffalo with a heavy rifle ( 13lbs) and didn't find it all that much of a problem. -Rob

Some years ago I had decided a 50cal was what I had to have for buffalo hunting so went the cheap route and built a 500 A-Square on a BBK-602 action. Had it done up in a Bastogne walnut stock and used a very heavy barrel, the rig weighed 13.5# scoped and loaded. With full loads and 600gr bullets I managed 2275fps and could tolerate the recoil....but not the gun weight. When I removed all of the recoil reducers and lead I had packed into the stock, I had the weight down to 10.5 pounds, but couldn't handle the recoil very well.
I guess I must be a wuss or something because 10 pounds is all I want to pack around for any length of time. I can do just fine with my 450 Dakota at that weight, so that's where I'll stay.

That's about what it boils down to, John. Each of us has to make our own determination, hopefully, not allowing the ego to dictate.

Rob,
You're a lot younger than I. The old forearms are down to 15" now. I can carry half a telephone pole for one day. Hunt the Zambezi Valley hard for buffalo in October. By day 7, you'll be looking for a hacksaw.

[ 09-22-2003, 22:26: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Thanks Congomike.

I just want to make a final point that in a 12-13 lb rifle, balance is extremely important. I've found that I tend to carry my rifles in my hands for long periods of time or in an African carry position. Even though I have a sling, I tend to use it only for short periods of time. A gun that balances just over the front action ring will distribute it's weight better for me in an African Carry position and lets me carry it much much more easily than a lighter but muzzel heavy gun or a gun that balances closer to the triggerguard.
You simply have to weigh the advantages vs the disadvantages of gun weight vs the ability to make a good first shot. In my case, especially when really tired, I find a heavy gun comes up and stays on target much better than a light one. You add to that the mental effect of confidence in ones shooting ability ( especially when tired) vs worrying about recoil and I'll hump a heavy everytime. -Rob

I also, would make a final comment. The hunter requiring a slighty heavier rifle to better control the recoil is one thing. The hunter not requiring such, is another. But the prospect of carrying 20-30% more gunweight for the sole purpose of softening up a millisecond of pain as the trigger is pulled, makes no sense at all to me. Use the heaviest caliber you can handle in a rifle of the weight you can hunt with. I also think the cumulative fatique of carrying an additional 2-3 pounds of gunweight, quite possibly for days on end, is just as likely to ruin one's shooting as enhance it. Those white hunters of old didn't have a gunbearer muling the heavy around because they were lazy. They knew it payed to be as fresh as possible, when the time came. IMO, the hunter needing a 12-13+ pound rifle with a muzzle brake, due to recoil considerations, really needs a lesser cartridge.

HI Gents,
Interesting subject and comments. Personally I don't like muzzle brakes and I think with a straight inline stock, a Pachmayer F990 recoil pad and a gun weight of 10 to 10.5 lbs a 505 can be tamed by a seasoned shooter. By seasoned I'm refering to someone that is used to shooting a 375 H&H or a 416 with factory loads in the 2400 fps range. With downloading to start and building up your tolerence to the recoil gradually you can adapt to the recoil level of the 505. The 505 ballistics are not a huge jump above the 458 Lott. When you compare a 500 grain bullet at 2300 fps for the Lott and a 525 at 2300 fps for the 505 the difference in recoil is only 6.5 ft lbs. Blindfolded if you were passed either rifle it would be hard to tell the difference. Everyone has a different recoil tolerence but working up to your goal velocity will really make a huge difference. If your loading your 505 to 500 A-Square bullet weights and velocities your asking for a bigger difference. If your finding the 505 ballistics a little on the strong side recoil wise back it down by 50 or 100 fps and shoot it that way. It's a win win when you can balance gun weight with the power available.
Take care,
Dave
Nick what was that address for the murcury recoil reducers. Your doing it again.

[ 09-23-2003, 09:34: Message edited by: 470 Mbogo ]

With my .585 I decided to have extra weight so I could fire it rather than leave it in the safe. It's heavy at 14 pounds but with the break and three mercury reducers it is alright.

My barrel is 1" at the muzzle, I understand however that it is getting heavy for a long"walking" hunt, but it's my toy and I love it just the same.
My .458 lott which I will be getting in the next couple of weeks will be a kicker I reckon due to being very "portable"

just a note...
my 500 jeffe, empty, weighs 10 and 4oz...
with 4 rounds in the mag (yeah, IN the mag) that add nearly 10 oz., so right at 11... there is a large diff in 10.25 and 11...

but, I built it slightly nose heavy, empty, for shooting off hand and as i know first shot counts.

after awhile, either you get used to it, the brain gets numbed, or you sell your 50s...

just takes time, practice, and patience.

jeffe

I went moose hunting a few years back and decided to drag my .500 A-Sq. along. I humped up and down hills and through woods. At that time with the 1x Burris on it, it topped out at exactly 13 pounds. I did not think it heavy, the weight simply did not register. I have taken the scope off now so it is 12 pounds. Even better.

These things will penetrate really well, don't worry about having to fire it fast.

I shot a Buff through some high grass this year while bent nearly double, I remembered why I allowed that the 416, 404 is my limit...

Sure I can shoot a 505 from a standing position, but that isn't always the case in a hunting situation and I recall a few half moon cuts in some clients eyebrows, one German who had to have his eye sewed up 3 different times, the 3rd time ended his hunt as he couldn't take anymore. Didn't matter as he had by then developed quite a flinch.

Knowing your limitations is very important indeed and it always amazes me how many do not know their limits in recoil or refuse to admit it. Its OK to shoot all the gun you can, as long as you know you can handle and that word "know" is the key.