I put some Chronographed loads in the Reloading section if interested.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...2511043/m/5701039081

Thanks for the post. Good info there and glad to see the velocities. Will save it to try in my rifle.

No Problem,
This is the first time I have done any load testing for the .458 WM.
From all the past comments I have read over time (Years) I was expecting to have some problems hitting the 2125 FPS mark with the 22" Bbl.
I may have a "fast" barrel but to be honest even with H335 and using a 24" drop tube, compresion was not bad and with only these two powders I tested hitting the mark was no problem at all. I am going to give H335 another shot with a grain or two less to lower the compresion and maitain 2125 FPS for an even 5000 FPE.
With AA2230, hitting 2125 FPS is a breeze.

Great information, but there are a lot of "experts" on this forum that will claim that you cannot get over 2100fps out of a .458 even with a 24" barrel.......guess that isn't quite right, is it.
Thanks again for the great information and loads. I have a Win. 70 in .458 with a 24" barrel and manage to get 2200fps out of it. Real close to the Lott with a lot less recoil, and powder.

Who said you can't get 500gr/ 2100fps with .458W ? The 458W case is small but you can still ram 75gr of powder into it and get 2180-2220 fps out of it.

However that much of bulky powder will expand the case and form a ring at the base of the bullet. In hot 40-45+Cel. these 2200fps loads may give you few unwanted problems. Even more so if the loaded ammo is directly exposed to the sun.

If 2200fps is needed than the 458 Lott is the best remedy to fix this problem.

Pyzda

Good post. I'm testing some right now out of my 24" Ruger using 76 grs A2230. I'll post results

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:
Good post. I'm testing some right now out of my 24" Ruger using 76 grs A2230. I'll post results

THAT HORNADAY DATA COULD BE TOO HOT!
I would be real concerned with that 76 grains of AA2230 loaded with 500 grain bullets. I got 2200 fps with 73 grains, 24" barrel, at a nominal temp of 50 F degrees with 500 grain Hornady bullets.

I pulled the bullets out of the loads at 74 grains of AA2230...I settled on 72 grains at nominal 2170 fps

I would definately start lower than 76 grains...hopefully you have done some prior testing????

Keep in mind that with a 500gr. bullet with a BC.300 whereabouts means only about 20 yards in the field difference between 2150fps vs. 2200fps muzzle velocity.

Pyzda

Thank you for the kind replies Gentlemen.
Just a note, I stopped at 74 Grs. of AA2230. The reason being at 75 Grs.
compression became noticable and I was getting flattened and the beginning
of cratering to the primers.
Even though cases still exstracted easily I did not like the primer warning signs.

I loaded up some 72 & 73's & will test them before moving up. If too much I'll pull the 76's. I'll let youknow how they do

Just ot of curriosity, have you tried AA2520 ??

That's been my go-to powder in all my Lott's.. But to tell the truth, did not do much experimenting with the Win Mag..

quote:

Originally posted by MopaneMike:
Just ot of curriosity, have you tried AA2520 ??

That's been my go-to powder in all my Lott's.. But to tell the truth, did not do much experimenting with the Win Mag..

Might be a little too slow. You've already got a case full of 2230 & I'm not a big fan of compressed loads in general & more so with spherical or ball powders

MopaneMike,

No, I have not tried any.
I am so satisfied with the numbers from AA2230 I will stick to that powder
for the 500 Gr. bullet wieghts.
For Soft points, I will try to match the DGS solids with Swifts
A-Frame 500 Grs. and their 400 Gr. model.
I would like to try the Cutting edge 500 Gr. solids to see if I can
hit 2125 FPS without to much compression or pressure problems.

I thought I would post a couple pictures of the .458.
The forums could use more pictures.





My Dachshund Oscar, he's a BadAss....

Nice rifle, thanks for sharing. I have been loading my Remington 798 (23" barrel) with the 500gr Hornady bullet using 70.0 grs of RL-15 and get 2000fps MV. Works great on moose. If I need more speed from my .458 Win. mag. your data is an excellent reference.

I had so many chances to pick one of those 798's
up and I could kick myself for not doing it.

Nice rifle.

Thanks, I sure like it. Might have been eclipsed, for the time being at least, by my Sako that I recently got converted to .458 Lott.

Consider a trade for that Dash Hound of yours? I could use a dog like that.

Great loading info and very nice rifle Colt Commander. I have a 1950's vintage Brno 602 that I hope to start loading for soon.

H335 Update to this post.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...541083181#4541083181

quote:

Originally posted by 600 Overkill:
Good post. I'm testing some right now out of my 24" Ruger using 76 grs A2230. I'll post results

Well I finally got to test them out
72& 73grs of A2230 were almost interchangeble in speed and point of impact---Speed= 2086 fps

76grs A2230= 2102 fps

The 76 gr load did show very slight case stickiness but very very slight & only on 1 case out of 5.

Bottom line---I'm going to use 72grs as my go-to load. You don't gain much speed at all going with higher charges---just pressures

600 Overkill,

Thanks for the update.

I found 4 boxes of the old style 500gr. soft points for only 24.00 a box. He was trying to get rid of them, I abliged

The shank is much shorter on these and with H335 I was able to reach 2140 average at slightly below max. book charge weight.
Although I prefer AA2230, H335 is much easier to find.

They are good bullets to practice with for the price, but they are getting hard to find.

I can get all the DGS solids I want, but could not find one box of the new soft points anywere to test.

Colt

I too have one of those early Win M70s that came in 22 inches. For several years, this was the go to rifle I used for many things. However back in the late 90s up to 2001 when it was retired, our components were not nearly as good as they are today, including powders. I was using lighter bullets, and RL 7 for that rifle. I did not use this rifle for heavy work, left that to the 458 Lott. But did take lion, buffalo and lots of other critters with it. It was a favorite.

I have always considered 458 Winchester at the top of it's game with a 450 gr bullet, and not the 500s. You are getting incredible velocity with the 500s and that 22 inches, no doubt. The choice of bullets is less than desirable in comparison to some that are available. But only if you were going to take it for real work. I see you mention the 500 BBW#13, that is a very long bullet, and you might have some issues getting it to where you would want it. You are better served by dropping to the 450 BBW#13 in my opinion. Especially if you were going to the field with it in any capacity for heavy work.

While I don't shoot 458 Winchester any longer, as a favor to some of the guys I did some quick load data on 458 Winchester and Lott with the BBW#13s some time ago, which you are welcome to. In the Winchester I used Tac, X Terminator, AA 2230, RL 15, IMR 8208 and as a request RL 7. Tac, X Terminator, AA 2230 and IMR 8208 did very very well with the 450 BBW#13, in 24 inches of barrel running 2311 to 2341 fps, with zero issues. By bullet design this is far more effective terminally than most any 500 running less velocity. Assuming in the end that is what you are after, if considering going to the field for buffalo, hippo, elephant. If you were stuck on a heavier bullet, of which there is no need, then the 480 BBW#13 would be easier to work with than the 500 BBW#13 in the Winchester Case. I am not sure how much velocity you might loose in the 2 inches less than what I tested, and depends on your barrel as well, I would guess no more than 50-60 fps with this cartridge. Puts you well above 2250-2275 fps in 22 inches. In addition to this info, I picked some of the heavier loads, they are not starter loads by any stretch, but I did not take anything to max, nor did I do any intensive load data on this. Basically picked a load, and tried it and nothing more. There would be a lot of tweaking that could take place within this data.

Just FYI is all and future reference. Anything I can help with glad to do so.

Michael

michael458,

Thank you very much Sir. It is very kind of you to offer your data. I am a fan and read all of your posts.

Your reasoning makes perfect sense, and I agree.

The .458, I am keeping as a "safe gun" and am just playing with it for the moment.

My favorite rifle, I have to admit is a .458 Lott. Soon I will be ordering some of your 500 Gr. bullets to try since Barnes seems out of the picture.

Might pick up some of your 480's for the .458 WM and give them a shot. Thanks for the reply. Don

Don

Thanks!

Yes, my 458 like yours is now a safe gun as well. It was out about 2 yrs ago, and changed the stock on mine to a very nice bastogne from AI. I have not even shot it with the new stock. Back in the safe. When I did the data on 458win/Lott I used a 24 inch Winchester that was out and set up, and a 24 inch lott as well.

That rifle with the 22 inch barrel was my first Winchester, and I loved it so good, I have never been to the field with anything but a Winchester since. I never liked the stock that came in however.

Have fun with it!

Michael

Your Welcome,

The .458 does seem to have a "fast" barrel, and it feeds like glass. It is begging a nice stock,Sunnyhill drop mag. and some NECG accessories.

The gun is just about perfect as is for a factory rifle, but I think that is due to the sitting man in charge at Winchester back in the 90's.

When I purchased the rifle it was of good quality in form and function, but average overall. The first time I shot it it split the stock at the wrist.Of coarse I was pissed and called Winchester and let them know of my displeasure.

The next day I received a phone call from the man in charge,I'm sorry I do not remember his name. He asked me to send the rifle to him directly. About a month later I received the rifle back and the pictures really do not show how nice it is. For a factory rifle it is perfect in every way. The only thing I have changed is the butt pad. That can be returned to original form with a few screw turns.

I did of coarse call him and thanked him.

I am just going to leave it as is. I would put the old pad back on but I lost the damn thing and can not find a new one.

Bolt action Winchesters in factory or custom are the only ones I use.

Just tested the 350gr Hornady RN with 72gr Rel 7. Great fun varmint-recoil level load. One big hole with iron sights at 50 yards. Speed= 2415 fps. Next I'll do some media testing but I think this is my new 458WM pig-deer load. I'm going to leave this guy un-scoped for fun. Nice big NEGC front sight makes it easy

600,
Is that one of the older Ruger M77 .458 Bolt actions?
I used to have one of those like 20 yrs. ago.
Loved that gun but traded it, my mistake.
The thing was heavy and you could beat the hell out of something with the barrel alone.
It was accurate.

It sure is Colt. So far after a few hundred rounds, I love it. Quick, light---it's just a fun little plinker. Sometimes you need to go back to the future and re-love a simple tang safety, wood & polished blueing. Kinda reminds one of simpler times

Overkill

Use the Ruger scope ring mount and convert it to a peep sight.

You will never need a scope and with little bit of trigger time you should be able to shoot 1.5" 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

Pyzda

i'm kicking that around right now---& I love peep sights---but the standards are pretty easy yet so we'll see

Small Update.

I picked up a new Win. M70 in .458 w/24" BBl.
Friday.

Saturday, just to check function (Perfect out of Box) I ran a few rounds of Solids and Softs I developed for the 22" BBl. M70.

Top row is 22" BBL. and bottom is 24" BBL.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...2511043/m/5701039081

Charge- 72.5 Grs. AA2230
FPS- 2150,2159,2143,2147,2157. ES- 16, SD- 6, Avg.- 2150

FPS- 2209,2207,2218,2203,2192. Avg.- 2205


Charge- 76.3 Grs. H335
FPS- 2147,2160,2154,2154,2150. ES- 13, SD- 4, Avg.- 2153

FPS- 2171,2195,2203,2185,2189. Avg.- 2188

If you will notice the difference between the 22" and 24" Barrels is 30-50 FPS or about what you would expect from 2" of additional barrel.

None of these loads are compressed.

I was beginning to think the 22" BBl. may have been unusual and fast. Now I have doubts. One fast barrel, possible,two fast barrels for the same person, unlikely.

With the 24" Barrel I could download and drop 75 FPS and still hit 5000 FPE with a lower pressure load using the 500Gr. Hornady solids and AA2230.

It may be that rather than fast barrels it is a case of a fast lot of powder.

465H&H