So if they both shot good in your gun witch one would you use? and why.

Neither one.

www.northforkbullets.com

1. Less pressure than either TSX or SAF

2. Less fouling than either TSX or SAF

3. Opens at lower velocity than either TSX or SAF

4. Retains nearly 100% weight even at the highest velocities (i.e., does not break off petals!)

Dan,

Didn't the Swift penetrate deeper than the TSX or NFSP in your tests on elephant?

465H&H

Yes.

And that is probably explained by the Swift opening quite a bit later, which is related to #3 above.

When seeking maximum penetration, we use a solid. When seeking maximum damage to the vitals, a bullet that reaches those vitals in expanded form is ideal.

Another vote for North Forks

To stick with the question the Swift will penetrate as deep as one would require but will probably have more blood shot area around the bullet path than the Barnes. Either bullet will be an excellent choice. Meat damage is about the only difference that I've found.
Take good care
Dave

I would have to agree with 500grains. I have shot all the bullets and killed game with them, that are manufactured in this country and have not found anything that is as tough as the North Fork bullets with accuracy. The Barnes and Swift A-Frame are as tough, but in my rifles not as accurate. I have shot the North Forks from Colorado to Alaska to Alberta to Africa. When I dug out a .416 North Fork out of a Cape Buffalo that had traversed from the last rib to the first rib and lodged where the rib adjoined the backbone and still had 99.1 percent of its original weight and had a perfect mushroom, my PH said WOW, what a bullet. That is the reason I shoot them today. Good shooting.

I would say that depends on the weight and velocity of the bullet and on what it is intended for.If your going to shoot a light bullet fast you are going to need a tough bullet.It is not hard to determine which are hardest.I suggest you take a hammer,put these bullets in a vice and slug them.You don't have to fly to Africa and shoot all kinds of stuff,or look up all these sophisticated words some bullet makers use to get a good idea of how a bullet will perform.

I think you could pretty much flip a coin.

I like the Swifts and trust them, so thats likely the side I'd fall on.

No offence to the North Forks (who I think makes a great bullet with a great design), but in my limited experience with them on cape buff (as a witness only) I still trust the Swifts more than the NF softs. I reserve the right to change my opinion if I get more experience with them.

Cheers,
Canuck

Spencer,
No history with the TSX, but both the Barnes XLC and the Swift A-Frames have worked well for me on buffalo. The Swift gave me my only one shot kill on buff... of course, that was because he got into the thick stuff before I could launch another round!

I think either will work well on buff and/or plainsgame and would resort to shooting the bullet that grouped the best in your particular rifle...

I used a 400 grain TSX out of my 416 Rigby with excellent results on buffalo, hippo and lion. They were very accurate behind 100 grains of H4831SC.

Just love the performance on Buff with 300grn Swift A-frames.

i just had a look on the NF web site, and it appears the faster they are going the better! they are probably one of the best close range bullets.

i know these arent in the same class, but, for lower velocity -2000fps and below, i found sierra pro hunter bullets to work very well. i have only used 150gr prohunters in the 303british that are doing 2300fps at the muzzle and they have all killed cleanly and efficently on deer sized game out to 250yards. i know there are better bullets but they are a good bang for buck IMO! might not be much use on a cape buffalo tho


and for your original question, im sure both will work fine

I would say the Swift A Frames. I don't like TSX
bullets anyway.

Swift's performamce is exceptional.

Go with the Barnes offering just in case there is a ban on lead in ammunition.

Thanks guys I have been working up loads for the TSX but have heard the Swift A frame is a very good bullet. I will be useing them in my 375 rum And H&H and a 416 rem.
But I just bought some switfs in .375 300gr and will see how they do.

500 gr how does the North Forks hold up to High speed impacts ie the 375 rum?

quote:

Originally posted by PRDATOR:


500 gr how does the North Forks hold up to High speed impacts ie the 375 rum?

I have not used them at that velocity, so I cannot comment from personal experience. Mike at North Fork says that the faster you drive a North Fork bullet, the better they work. Feel free to give him a call as he is very knowledegable.

www.northforkbullets.com

quote:

Originally posted by PRDATOR:
So if they both shot good in your gun witch one would you use? and why.

I really like the A-Frames but consider the Northforks and the TBBCs equivalent for the needs of a soft point.

again it is just my opinion but have found by killing and keeping the offside bullet if there is one that both are very good and accurate-no real need to go to the NorthFork. The cost of the Swift and the NorthForks are roughly the same so why not try the NorthForks if you are a mind. I bought a couple boxes of .338 225's off of Mike and have yet to actually take an animal albeit a moose or a grizz--soon I am sure.

I found with my .375RUM shooting 270grn Barnes that @ approx. 375-400yds that the exit on this bullet on a 60" bull was massive! Dropped him to his knees! BUT he got up and walked roughly 30yds and expired. Got to admire the works of the Barnes bullet.

I did carry some 300 grn Swift A frames but only use them on Grizz-what a hammer!

I've killed three buffalo with the barnes "X" bullets over the years and will use them again this year on buffalo. I have killed many heads of plains game, large and small, with North Forks and do not find them lacking in any fashion either. I want complete penetration on buffalo and I want the performance of a "soft" as well and that pretty much means Barnes. I wouldn't have any reservations using the A frame or North Forks if complete penetrations was not desired. The "X" bullets will most likely completely penetrate from any angle except straight on so one must be very careful if hunting herd bulls.

TSX vs. Aframe. Like Canuck said, flip a coin. Northfork is an excellent choice too.

I second what 500 grains said about the North Fork for all the same reasons.

I would also add that the Swift has a very unconventional way of maintaining the frontal area of the bullets mushroom. The rear core expands, and makes a classic Swift "beer barrel" configuration from the bearing surface of the bullet, which makes contact with the expanded front core and jacket, supporting it. Pictured 400 grain 416 at PB and 100 yards.



Look closely and you will see difference in diameter of bearing surface.

The frontal area is determined in large amount by the range at which or velocity with which your bullet hits home. Too close and the front end will still blow off as it does with the 458 450 grain. Too far, and the beer barrel rear core is not wide enough to help out.

The Swift is a good bullet but not as sure of a thing as a solid copper base like the original TBBC or current NF. (Current Speer TB is junk as they use gilding metal rather than pure copper).

Canuck knows what he is talking about as his 470 500 grain is within the velocity envelope and SD that works. Its just that a NF 400 grain 458 with a fraction of SD and much higher velocity still holds up to point blank buffalo.



Very few bullets will do this.

Pictured 450 grain at 2550 fps and 400 grain at 2750 fps.

Andy

I have used the X and TSX to good effect. Two recovered. One 300 grain .375 (at 2600 fps mv) from a followup shot on a Hartebeast. Bullet went the full length of the animal from rear to front and lodged in the front of the chest. Perfect mushroom retaining 99% of the original weight.

The second was from a close followup shot of a Buff. Was a 350 grain .416 Rigby at 2700 fps mv. Bullet entered the right rear ham, smashed the femur, went through the entire gut, lungs and heart. Lodged in under the skin of the front of the chest. Penetration was over 5 feet of Buf. Blew the petals off but retained 78% of original mass.

Given the performance of these bullets and the fact that they shoot well in my rifles, I see no reason to change to the Swift or the NF. That being said, if you're well heeled and have the time ... find which one of the three that shoots best in your rifle and be secure that it won't be likely to let you down.

mstarling,good work with those Barnes bullets.I see you make some nice knives!