Hi,

I always have a tendency to end up buying mulitple set of dies for a caliber and then pick out the ones that peform the best. However, this is a costly approach. I am getting ready to reload for my new caliber 416 Rigby and would like to know everything about it. Who makes the best dies for this nostagia cartridge? Since brass for the big Rigby is expensive, I would like to be as efficient in reloading as possible. Does neck sizing or full length sizing make any difference for this particular cartridge? Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ming

Ming,

I use RCBS full length sizing dies for my Rigby. I have gotten upto 10 reloadings out of Federal brass and 8 with Norma. The problem with Federal was neck separation at the shoulder, the Norma brass the primer pockets got too loose.

I load mine pretty hot, typically using max 416 Weatherby loads. My particular rifle is only accurate at max or min loads for some reason.

My rifle likes IMR 4350 the best. I got the best groups with Rel 19, but I also got some of the worse with this powder. The Rel 19 was very inconsistent. Reduced powder loads with IMR 3031 also were accurate although velocity dropped off about 75 - 100 fps for the same peak pressure.

Todd E

Ming

I also use RCBS full length, Norma brass, Re22 factory pressures (I shoot from a 15 in SSK handcannon). Federal 215 primers.

I ended up buying 3 sets of Rigby dies. Hornady was first as this was quite a while back when RCBS dies were well over $100. The $30+ bucks I spent on the Hornday dies was wasted. I can't stand those dies. The base of the shoulder in the seater die is not supported and when seating a bullet, even without crimp, the base of the shoulder bulges and the case will not chamber. The sizing die just did not size smoothly with lots of brass shaved from the neck area. Maybe I got a bad set, but I don't use Hornady any more if I can keep from it (to be fair to Hornady, I did not contact them for replacement, I just gave the dies away and bought some Lymans. A few years ago when I got my .309 JDJ barrel, the set of dies JD sent were Hornady, and they work perfectly for that round). My second set was a Lyman set and included a seat stem for spitzer bullets. Nice touch and no problems. When RCBS's price came down I decided to give them a try and got a FL set and neck die. The FL set only came with a RN seat stem, but otherwise there have been no problems with them. I have the Lyman seat set up for seating X bullets, and the RCBS for RN bullets. I FL with either die, no difference, when the time comes but mostly only neck size with a RCBS neck die. I neck expand with a RCBS neck expander die similar to the Lyman "M" die. I always crimp in an additional step with a Lee Factory Crimp die.
If starting over I would go with CH-4D dies as those are the best dies I have ever used, but the set I have are in .50 BMG. For most of my smaller caliber loading, I have found I like Redding better than either RCBS or Lyman, but still not as much as the CH-4D. Redding are excellent dies, but the CH-4D are more works of art than reloading dies. Down side to Redding is that the .416 Rigby Redding dies are still almost $100. If I am going to spend that much, I'll get the CH-4D.

I load only Norma brass and run them full power. So far, I retired my first lot after 8 loading only because I was getting nervous. There is no indication that I can find that the brass is not usable for more, but 8 is enough. However, I have found that with the Norma brass the necks need to be either inside neck reamed, which I do, or outside neck turned. The necks are very thick and in my rifles, both Rugers, there is no room for the brass to expand and release the bullet, so neck reaming is needed. IMR 4831 and H4831 have been the powders that my rifles like best.

[ 06-25-2002, 18:26: Message edited by: Big Bore ]

I have RCBS 2 die set and am using Bertram Brass (through not realising that Norma imported Brass to OZ) Any way I have bulged the shoulder a little on some cases beacuse I have set the crimper to hard. But I have been told with RCBS dies to seat and then remove the bullet seater and then crimp to ensure this problem does not occur again.

CH-4 dies are excellent, I have a set in .585 Nyatti and they crimp and seat .585 bullets in that playdough bertram brass in one pass no probs.

PC,

When you get your 585 you will no longer need a small bore rifle like the 416 rigby.

That is right...he will just need a shoulder replacement and some cognitive rehab post concussion syndrome. HeHe

PC,

through not realising that Norma imported Brass to OZ[/QUOTE]

Don't forget there is so many ways to get Nor�a Brass for an Aussie citizen

Thanks guys for all the good reloading tips, especially about the dies. I also have a set of CH4D dies for a different caliber and have been happy with it so I will take a close look at it for the 416 Rigby. Since RCBS dies are reasonable in price and quality, I will probably get it first. Thanks. Cheers! Ming

Yeah 500 the .416 will become My Varmint Rig

I am learning Ber007....slowly

Ming,

I just finished reloading a batch of 50 .416 Rigby rounds and I have worked out the amount of crimp so as not to set the shoulders back in the soft Bertram Brass. They seat and crimp well all in the one procedure now.

You can seat seperately and then wind the seating stem up and crimp in a seperate motion if you wish (I did that for 25 rounds).

So go for the RCBS dies as I think there pretty good, the only reason I bought CH-4 dies in .585 is that they list them as standard.

Ming;
Or, order a Lee Factory Crimp die. I haven't bulged a shoulder since I got it, no matter how much crimp I use. I wouldn't give you two cents for most Lee products, but I would not be without their Crimp dies.

Big bore, I agree that lee stuff seems cheaply made I am using there .44 rem mag dies at the minute, I am doing a run of 250 .44 rem mag bullets, I can not see them lasting as long as a good set of RCBS dies. I Like the grub screw locking ring mutch better than the little rubber locking one, there working at the minute bu tI think there crap really.

Did I miss something? Who says the .416 Rigby is hard to load for or that it's a NOSTAGIA Round? I've got two and a half .416 Rigby's and their is no problem with flattening the shoulder if you bell the case mouths slightly before loading and properly square your dies. As for a Nostalgia Round the .416 Rigby can be loaded to equal the .416 WBY with WBY brass with the rims turned off. Last trip to Tanzania it accounted for 12 critters including 2 Buff and was the most impressive killer of any that I've used there inclucing then 470NE and worse.-Rob

Thanks PC for the suggestion. Yes, I usually prefer to seat and crimp seperately.

Big Bore,

I like Lee's Factory Crimper (carbide?) a lot with most of my revolver calibers but for some reason, I did not like the Lee Crimper for my 45-70. It puts a deep ring around the case mouth and I did not like that. Anyway, I will check out the one for the 416 Rigby. Thanks. Cheers! Ming

Rob,
Norma .416 Rigby Brass would just be there weatherby stuff with the belt turned off any way wouldn't it??

I use RCBS dies and neck size only. As to the pressure level of a Rigby if I dont get 20 loadings I will be suprised. How ever as all good hunters would do use new or once fired cases on a hunt away from home.

quote:

Or, order a Lee Factory Crimp die. I haven't bulged a shoulder since I got it, no matter how much crimp I use. I wouldn't give you two cents for most Lee products, but I would not be without their Crimp dies.

The .416 rigby Lee Factory Crimp die is too big to fit in my press. It ia bigger diameter than my RCBS dies, what do y'all do about that? Use a differnt press for that die?

quote:

The .416 rigby Lee Factory Crimp die is too big to fit in my press. It ia bigger diameter than my RCBS dies, what do y'all do about that? Use a differnt press for that die?

I have a RockChucker Supreme an the large diameter dies fit when you unscrew the 7/8" diameter inner sleeve. So it helps to have a press with this feature.

Geronimo

RGB

what is two and one half 416 Rigbys?

Seriously, I have CH4D dies now in 416 Rigby, 510KX, 505 Gibbs, 50-110, and 9,3x62. They all work properly, and the FL sized cases all fit easily into the chamber.
Not much else to say...they work, at a very good price.

Rich
DRSS

You now have me afraid to load any more 416Rigby. Not being aware of all the attendent problems with this caliber I just bought RCBS dies for my Rockchucker and loaded them like I do any other caliber. Brass was Mast and Norma. Bullets were Woodleigh. I NEVER load max and the Elephant I took with it didn't seem to mind.

Zim,

don't you know elephants are illiterate? You have to read them the box label before you shoot them in the 21st Century...or provide complete load data including chrono figures and calculated ME, etc for non factory stuff.

Rich
DRSS

i use RCBS and jamison brass. however, my first seating die came with the primer removal pin off kilter. got a replacement, now works fine.havent counted how many reloas i get, but plenty. I dont load it hot, whats the point jazzing it up? Even with max loads, it doesnt belch flame, and we all know thats what really kills!

If I think I need something hotter than factory specs +100fps in my CZ 416Rigby, is it okay if I just shoot my other CZ in 505 Gibbs instead?

Thanks,

Rich
DRSS

I have only used the RCBS reloading dies, plus the Lee Factory Crimp (given to me by a generous AR member), so I can't make comparisons. So far I can get at least 6 reloadings out of a case. I don't load them hot, usually 2400 fps max and for most loads around 2350 fps with the 400 grain bullets. I did sometimes have problems with the roll crimp and did bulge some shoulders on a few cases. I now use almost exclusively the Lee Factory crimp. I only have experience with Norma cases.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

The .416 rigby Lee Factory Crimp die is too big to fit in my press. It ia bigger diameter than my RCBS dies, what do y'all do about that? Use a differnt press for that die?

Call Lee and ask them about this problem; something is not right. I've coordinated two group buys of 416 Rigby Lee FC dies and all of the dies we've received have been standard diameter and thread pitch. Did you order the die from Lee yourself? I'm wondering if someone else might have ordered it with a non-standard thread - then decided to off-load it without telling you about the threads.

In finding dies that are compatible with your rifle, the dimensions of your chamber are a significant variable as well. Tolerance accumulation for the rifle chamber and the dies comes into play here. I have both RCBS and Hornady dies for my 416 Rigby and, fortunately, both work for my rifle. In one of my 9.3 x 62's my Lyman dies aren't even close but the Hornady's work just fine. I use Norma brass in my 416, it is good,tough brass that withstands multiple loadings. I have gotten bad die sets in both RCBS and Hornady in other calibers. Sometimes you win, other times .....

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

The .416 rigby Lee Factory Crimp die is too big to fit in my press. It ia bigger diameter than my RCBS dies, what do y'all do about that? Use a differnt press for that die?

Call Lee and ask them about this problem; something is not right. I've coordinated two group buys of 416 Rigby Lee FC dies and all of the dies we've received have been standard diameter and thread pitch. Did you order the die from Lee yourself? I'm wondering if someone else might have ordered it with a non-standard thread - then decided to off-load it without telling you about the threads.

Gents I can answer that question. I have the Lee factoory crimp die for my 416 Rigby and it does indeed fit the standard die. When I ordered a set for my 450 Dakota it was much bigger and what you have to do is unscrew the die threads for your standard dies (at least on Lee Single Stage presses) then screw in the larger FC die in its place. Lee redesigned the dies about 2 years ago so now it's much wider (1") which requires you to remove the insert where the regular 3/4" thred dies normally fit. Hope I confused the shit out of you guys enough jorge