Is there anyone here who knows about if Winchester plan to make WSM in caliber 458? If they do I think that they must have the case a little bit longer 2.5" I think to get more velocity. It is possible to use this cases in a mauser 98?

I agree that the RUM/WSM case at 2.5" long would be just right for .338 and up.

With enough money a 98 could feed a WSM I suppose but it's less expensive to start with an action made for it. So far there really isn't an action made for a 2.5" RUM/WSM. The Dakota's are I suppose but very expensive.

The .458 WM is not a good design for handloading but not many handload it anyway or if they do it's for dangerous game and like new brass is used as it should be. I would rather have a rimless case with a shoulder myself.

Karl-Erik,

I had a .450 Heavy Express "WSM" last year for some testing. It was built on a Ruger short action. The owner Jim Busha also built rifles on the Winchester M70 action. I have some brass for the .460 HESAM too.

His line of cases were based on the .348 Winchester with the rim turned off, and an extractor groove cut -- this is the same as the WSM. By the way the .348 Wichester was derived from the .50-110 black powder case of the 19th century.

When Winchester introduced the .300 WSM Jim told me his sales went very low, almost to zero. He has since closed his HESAM business, but I think still makes custom rifles.

The .450 SAM case is 2.060" long, with a 46 degree shoulder. It will drive a 450 grain bullet 2,240 fps from a 24" barrel, and a 500 grain bullet 2,110 fps.

The .460 SAM case is 2.25" long, with a 46 degree shoulder as well. It will drive a 450 grain bullet 2,375 fps from a 22" barrel and a 500 grain bullet 2210 fps. (data from Heavy Express).

I have talked to two Winchester sales people, and a .458 WSM is not in their plans.

jim dodd

I'd bet we'll never see truly "dangerous game caliber's" on the WSM case from Olin. Gunsmith Mark Bansner, however, has done all of them up to the 470 on the WSM case maintaining the 35 degree shoulder.

BA

Why?..Lott is better.And on up to bigger.Shame about Heavy Magnum folks,
run out by bigshots.Ed

The problem with the 458 Win. was lack of powder space needed to drive the big 500 gr. bullets at decent velocity, and the compaction of powder that caused misfires, why would we want to remake that wheel, will we never learn...If the factory wanted to make a real 45 Cal. magnum they would take a look at the 404 case, full lenth...Something like the 460 G&A IMO...or the Dakota.

the WSM line, extended to 458, would equal the venerable 45/70, more or less, in case capacity. Better for a wLONGm (wlm) to come along... or just the dakota.
jeffe

Just what we all need - another 45/70.

Jeffe,

A .458 WSM will provide more velocity with a 500 grain bullet that the .45-70 is capable of doing, so it would not be just another .45-70. Garrett's new +P .45-70 load with the 500 grain Speer African Grand Slam solid gets 1,530 fps at the muzzle. If you compare those numbers to the .450 & .460 HESAM I posted above, you will see that those cartridges deliver more than the .458 WM, which itself delivers more energy than the .45-70.

Wildcats and proprietary cartridges aside, I would not hold my breath waiting for Winchester to develop a .458 WSM.

To deliver the velocity and energy needed with a .458"/500 grain bullet, the rifle must weigh so much that having a short action to do it from just doesn't matter.

jim dodd

i for one would be very interested in a .458 WSM but i also understand the many limitations that folks can see with it for pushing the big bullets. my intent for this round would be to act as a 450 marlin only better (read flatter shooting). the short case will always have limitations when it comes to pushing the longer 500 grain pills, but what it should be able to do well is push the 300 and 350 gr. x bullets. by my educated guess it should do around 2600 with the 350x which BWT has a b.c. similar to a 30 cal. 150gr partition. now you have a 45 cal that pushes 350's fast enough to compete with the '06 (in terms of tajectory). if you add in the fact that you can do all this in a short action, i think you can safely say that this is well past the 45/70. IMO people probably shouldn't pursue the short action design for african use but as something for this continent to be used with the lighter slugs that this case can handle well.

i'm not sure we really need anything between the lott and the weatherby, but if we do, the place to start, to my mind, would be the ultra mag case.

Karl-Erik

The 458 wsm is listed here with some others.

http://www.owlnet.com/quality/exotic.htm

Good luck RNS

[ 03-12-2003, 01:54: Message edited by: RNS ]