I was at a gun show in Ventura CA this weekend and ran across a Cogswell & Harrison Certus model rifle chambered in 450-400 Nitro Express 3 1/4 inch. This is not the current production gun from C & H using the name Certus but a 1904 vintage rifle. It was a two shot bolt action built around what looked like a very early ancestor to the Mauser model 66 or the great grandfather of the Blaser. Any of you guys have one I am curious as hell about the design. Google has some info but not a lot. please post opinions and or pictures if you have or have had one. Thanks

Raymond Nobles

This link will open PDF -file which tells you more of Certus rifle. For reading it you need Adobe Acrobad PDF reader which you can load without any costs from Adobe home page (www.adobe.com/)

http://www.countryclubuk.com/ci/ci76_rifles.pdf

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One of the ugliest rifles of the era...no, the UGLIEST!

Thank You to igorrock & Jgarbow6493 for the information provided. Biebs in all fairness I said I was curious about the design I did not say it was attractive. The example I handled was a really neat rifle but it lacked the grace and beauty of a prewar commercial Mauser that's for damn sure.

But they also came in 450 NE!

Jo-Jo the Dogface Queen of Rifles. Biebs is correct. Mike, I didn't know they made one in .450NE. The ones I handled were all 450-400's.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
But they also came in 450 NE!

And furthermore from that linked article:

Patented in 1900, and as of 1903 or earlier the Certus was on the market in ".400 or .450" caliber chamberings.

" ... an abundance of replacements for the .450 appeared in around 1906. Cogswell & Harrison responded to the situation by promoting the .400, .470 and .475 as suitable replacements and offered their range of double and magazine rifles in these calibers."


Two-shot vertical stack magazine, top rim in front of bottom rim in the "stack"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrgyX-33Exk

Lots of photos here:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=&topic=&Search=true

Sumbuddy who know what this rifle is, from season three of Downton Abbey when they were on holiday, stalking the Scottish red stag?

Below, from our favorite soap opera, Matthew Crawley checking the rifle at the castle before heading out, rifle cocked, aiming:



The striker has fallen and the blank cartridge (BP?) is firing, very little recoil, the scene was supposed to have been in the early 1920s:





Action is open, dig that prone bench rest:



Robert "Lord Grantham" Crawley, aiming at a red stag out in the Scottish moors or highlands or whatever, love those deerstalkers:






Sumbuddy who know make of rifle?
I reckon it is the same one for both shooters.
The TV series prides itself on period authenticity to details such as which prop rifle should have been used for stalking deer in Scotland about 1920-1925.

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The Downton Abbey rifle or a close relation, Lee-Metford:

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-...speed/lee-speed.html

"My rifle was built by the firm of W. W. Greener on a BSA Lee-Speed barreled action. It has a long, yet light 29 inch barrel and express sights with one standing and three folding leaves, as well as a ladder sight (of decorative value only). The rifle is furnished with a 10-round box magazine, as opposed to the occasionally encounted shorter sporting magazine ... "



Highjack off.

Yes, the Downton Abbey gun is a Lee Speed.
Lovely rifles.

Highjack back on:

Page 208 of A YEAR IN THE LIFE OF DOWNTON ABBEY by Jessica Fellowes, foreward by Julian Fellowes (Review of book: Good book.):



That was (soon to be killed off in the soap opera) Matthew Crawley sighting in the Lee-Speed, maybe in .303 British.
In the 1920s they could have been using the old original BP loading of the cartridge, pre-cordite,
or just a BP blank cartridge for the one shot fired on the show.

BTW, that is the actual owner of the Inveraray Castle in the West Highlands of Scotland, Alastair Bruce, Duke of Argyll, who is play acting as the ghillie with the telescope, coaching Matthew.
That would be the character Nield (gamekeeper), quoted.

As you were ...

Maybe the Certus owes something to the Lee box magazine concept, like all other box magazine repeating rifles?

James Paris Lee (1831-1904) was born in Scotland, came to Ontario, Canada as a toddler 1835-1836, family name was changed there from "Lees" to "Lee." He moved to Janesville, Wisconsin, USA in 1858, and filed for US citizenship thereafter.

The Lee box magazine patents date from 1877. The first production rifle, the Model 1879 Lee-Remington, was adopted by China, then the U.S. Navy, and many other countries including Spain and Argentina. Rifles were manufactured by Remington at Ilion, NY. Improved Lee rifles were chambered in 7x57mm, 7.62mm Mauser, 30-40 Krag, and 6mm Navy, for military contracts. A variety of other chamberings were produced for the sporting market. The "straight-pull" Model 1895 was not as popular as the rear-locking turnbolts prior to that.

Lee was a prolific inventor: Leather tanning processes, heating and air-temperature equipment, a jockstrap, and he worked on the typewriter made and marketed by Remington. Some claim that one of the Mauser brothers rented a room above the hotel room of James Paris Lee, across the street from Remington Armoury in Ilion, New York, so as to drill a hole in the floor to spy on Lee working on his rifle patent drawings and models.
But geniuses in different parts of the world do come up with similar or same ideas independently sometimes.

From bottom of page 14 of THE LEE-ENFIELD, A CENTURY OF LEE-METFORD & LEE-ENFIELD RIFLES & CARBINES
ISBN: 9780949749826
By Ian Skennerton, www.skennerton.com:



Book review: The book is good, and huge.



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I know these rifles are ugly but,I would love to have one in .400/450.

Just one of those things......

I'm with Colt Commander, I'd like to own one of these.

Not nearly as ugly as the blaser...

I am adding to my wish list, Lee-Remington, Lee-Speed, and Certus by C&H.

A Certus in 450 NE or 450/400 NE would be very interesting, much much more interesting than a Blaser of any or many chamberings.
This one seems to be chambered for 450 NE 3.25" or "Light Rifle Express":

http://forums.nitroexpress.com...=&topic=&Search=true






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RIP or any of you other guys if you are really interested in one I have the contact information for the guy who had one for sale in Ventura a few weeks ago just shoot me a PM. the one he had was in 450-400 3 1/4 inch it was not in bad shape but the stock looked to have been repaired a very long time ago. All in all it was a really neat rifle I would love to have it but money wise that is not in the cards right now.

IIRC The load for these was a slightly lighter loading than the full NE. Maybe 1900 vs 2150?

Just thought I would pass this along in case any one was interested. Willoughby McCabe in Dallas has a Certus for sale. It is slightly different than the one I saw in Ventura perhaps a newer or older model I do not know.

Owned one years ago in 450--

impressive recoil

FYI: The 1902-03 Kynoch catalogue shows the 450/400 Cordite Express, 3 1/4" case, "Adapted to Cogswell & Harrison, and other Rifles", as loaded with 60 gr. of Cordite behind a 400 gr. Nickel-coated bullet, for 2200 fps, "Given by 30 inch Barrels with close fitting chambers at 60° Fahr.", and developing 17.5 Tons per sq. inch. Lighter loads were also listed: 56 gr. Cordite, 400 gr. bullet, for 2000 fps and 14 tons/sq.in.; and 45 gr. Granulated Cordite, 316 gr. bullet, for 2000 fps and 12 tons/sq.in.

The 450/400 Express used either 40 gr. of Cordite or 110 gr. of black powder behind a 270 gr. paper-patched bullet. The black powder load was rated at 1800 fps and 11 tons/sq.in. pressure.

Cheers, Al