I am having 404 Jeffery built on a Granite Mountain Standard Mag. Action and in the process of determining how and what to scope it with.

I am thinking about using this rifle as my primary DGR as well as an all around big game rifle. With that in mind I am considering the following, however, I would appreciate any feedback, experience, etc you may have on the subject and the Z6 Swarovski in particular.

1) Leaning towards pivot mounts for a couple of reasons. Unlike Claw mounts, I have been advised that I will not be limited to one type of scope model...any experience claw vs pivot?
2) Looking at a Swarovski Z6 1.7x10x42mm. Always been a fan of Swaro. glass only issue I have with this scope is wt. @ 16.6 oz. I am leaning away from the illum. recticule as it just adds more wt. to the back end of the scope and not sure if it really adds that much given how good the optics are on the Swaros.
3) Probably going to have an extra set of rings for a 1" scope for back-up purposes.

Appreciate any advice or comments on setting up this rifle.

Best,

jjs

Swaro has excellent glass...but my 404J wears a 3x Leupy. That being said, it would seem the GM action deserves the best glass!

I tend to creep forward on the stock and have never been able to get a scope with a front bell ring far enough forward with claw mounts. I also just dont like the look of a front ring around the bell of the scope. I would definitely consider pivot mounts such as Recknagle (SP?) or the ones sold by NECG. I love that Swarovski scope choice for a 404. It would be my choice for an all purpose gun as well. Good luck with your new gun. I'm sure Ralf is building a beauty for you!

My HCR .404 wears a Zeiss Conquest 2.5X8. Makes her a "go to" gun for anything we run across, big or small. It is a small light scope. Will test her in about three weeks in the Omay...

I have a Swaro 1.75X6 on my Davenport .375 H&H. Excellent glass.

quote:

I am thinking about using this rifle as my primary DGR as well as an all around big game rifle. With that in mind I am considering the following, however, I would appreciate any feedback, experience, etc you may have on the subject and the Z6 Swarovski in particular.

2) Looking at a Swarovski Z6 1.7x10x42mm. Always been a fan of Swaro. glass only issue I have with this scope is wt. @ 16.6 oz. I am leaning away from the illum. recticule as it just adds more wt. to the back end of the scope and not sure if it really adds that much given how good the optics are on the Swaros.

Sound idea.
Why be afraid of the weight, though? Added weight means less recoil. If you're considered with the balance, then try the 1-6x24 whose only drawback is that it's not a dark (night) scope due to the too small objective lens diameter.
Even better, try the EE model with the extended eye relief -> no more bruised eyebrows!
Added plus is a very wide field of view.

Also I'd strongly suggest the illuminated reticle. The little weight gain isn't significant, but the illuminated reticle really helps when the lighting is poor, and when trying to see where the devil the center of the crosshairs really is, e.g. in shrub with a dark animal in the shadows.
I used to think it's unnecessary but having tried it I'm pretty much a convert.
Also it helps in quick situations where it works almost like a red dot sight making sighting very quick, indeed.

quote:

3) Probably going to have an extra set of rings for a 1" scope for back-up purposes.

Why?

- Lars

Agreed with Lars...

On a DGR, try the Z6 EE 1-6x24. You'll have more use for true 1x than for 10x.

Also, do try an illuminated circle dot. Adds no noticeable weight, but once you've got it on something dark coming to you fast, you won't want to give it back...

quote:

Originally posted by Schauckis:

quote:

I am thinking about using this rifle as my primary DGR as well as an all around big game rifle. With that in mind I am considering the following, however, I would appreciate any feedback, experience, etc you may have on the subject and the Z6 Swarovski in particular.

2) Looking at a Swarovski Z6 1.7x10x42mm. Always been a fan of Swaro. glass only issue I have with this scope is wt. @ 16.6 oz. I am leaning away from the illum. recticule as it just adds more wt. to the back end of the scope and not sure if it really adds that much given how good the optics are on the Swaros.

Sound idea.
Why be afraid of the weight, though? Added weight means less recoil. If you're considered with the balance, then try the 1-6x24 whose only drawback is that it's not a dark (night) scope due to the too small objective lens diameter.
Even better, try the EE model with the extended eye relief -> no more bruised eyebrows!
Added plus is a very wide field of view.

Also I'd strongly suggest the illuminated reticle. The little weight gain isn't significant, but the illuminated reticle really helps when the lighting is poor, and when trying to see where the devil the center of the crosshairs really is, e.g. in shrub with a dark animal in the shadows.
I used to think it's unnecessary but having tried it I'm pretty much a convert.
Also it helps in quick situations where it works almost like a red dot sight making sighting very quick, indeed.

quote:

3) Probably going to have an extra set of rings for a 1" scope for back-up purposes.

Why?

- Lars

Thanks for the input, please keep it going...

One of my goals along with balance was to have as light and trim a "stalking type" rifle as possible. Shouldering a rifle all day for 10+ days in Africa, I have learned a few lessons and 11+lbs of rifle is not for me....that's a big reason why the rifle is going to be a 404 Jeffery and it is the reason why every ounce matters.

I can definately see your points, in favor of illum. recticule, with Cape Buffalo, dark shawdows,etc. but given the clarity of the Z6 1.7-10x42mm do you still think it makes that bit a difference?

The 3.7" of "standard" eye relief should be just fine as such do not see the need for "EE". The 1x6 would be my choice on a 458 but I am reasoning the 1.7-10x42mm would add a bit more flexibility for an all around rifle choice.

Always take two rifles with me on extended trips (have had the need before) and always an extra scope....have a 1.5x5 Leupold already as a back-up, hence the extra 1" set of rings.

I appreciate the input!

Thanks,

jjs

My .404 Jeffery is built on a Model 70 Super Grade that started life as a .300 RUM. It wears a Swarovski Z6 1-6X24 with a #4 reticle in Talley QD rings. It has standard eye relief not EE. After shooting almost 300 full power rounds through the rifle I have never come close to getting scope eye.

quote:

my 404J wears a 3x Leupy

+1

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Always take two rifles with me on extended trips (have had the need before) and always an extra scope....have a 1.5x5 Leupold already as a back-up, hence the extra 1" set of rings.

I would stay with the 1.5x5 Leupold. It will save you more than half a pound over the bigger glass. Also, it can be mounted lower which keeps the center of gravity lower. Plus it will be easier on mounts. And, being less bulky it will make the rifle more comfortable to carry.

And to those who say the extra weight is needed on a 404.... The scope is not where you want to add weight!

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Always take two rifles with me on extended trips (have had the need before) and always an extra scope....have a 1.5x5 Leupold already as a back-up, hence the extra 1" set of rings.

I would stay with the 1.5x5 Leupold. It will save you more than half a pound over the bigger glass. Also, it can be mounted lower which keeps the center of gravity lower. Plus it will be easier on mounts. And, being less bulky it will make the rifle more comfortable to carry.

And to those who say the extra weight is needed on a 404.... The scope is not where you want to add weight!

I agree that the extra weight in the scope is not the place, if needed at all!

I have had enough problems with Leupolds on DGRs that I do not trust them on my rifles as primary. Two 1.5x5s and a 2.5 fixed both went tits up prior too and on a safari..I guess I just got three with problems..good but not nearly as good as Swarovski glass.

I guess it all a trade off...one of each may be the best choice....

A Schmidt&Bender 1.1-4 or 1.5-6 or the Z6 1-6 would be my pick.

Jim,
You're using the same action on which Duane built my 416 Rigby. I used the Swaro Z6 1-6X and it's a pig. I wouldn't even consider using the Z6 1.2-10X...that's a monstrosity for a DGR. 6X is all the power I can envision needing on a 416 or 404.

I really like the straight tube Z6 on my 416 but only because the action is large enough that the scope doesn't look out of place. The beauty of a 404 is the ability to pack a lot of punch in a light, handy rifle. When the scope weighs almost as much as the rifle, the 404 looses a lot of its allure.

Hey Forrest,

Good to hear from you! Acutally, the 404 is on a Standard Mag Action, I think it is a couple of steps down from the action that houses the 416 Rigby, unless Duwane was able to make that work?

Any way I look at it, I am going to give up 6oz on a Swaroski over a 1" scope...If I am looking at it right, there are only a couple oz. difference between the 1-6 to the 1.7-10. The 1.7-10 weighs in at 16.6 and the 1.6 is not that far behind...they are both pigs but what a "picture"!

I have Ralph attempting to bring the "bare" rilfe in at 8-8.5 lbs...I hope!

I used the same standard mag action that you're using. There was plenty of room to open it up for a 416 Ribgy.

I'm afraid getting the weight down to 8-8.5 lbs is going to be difficult. There's a lot of steel in that action and bottom metal. My 416 went through a major weight reduction program and came in at about 9.5 lbs. Unless you're using a pencil thin barrel, I don't see how you could loose another pound off the rifle.

Ralf is an expert at the slim and trim classic rifle. I'd let him build a balanced rifle and not worry about the finished weight too much. He's going to build a great rifle or it won't leave his shop. I can't wait to see it take shape.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
I used the Swaro Z6 1-6X and it's a pig. I wouldn't even consider using the Z6 1.2-10X...that's a monstrosity for a DGR.

Forrest, do you think it's 30mm tubes in general or is the ocular bell of the Swaro that makes it so ungainly?

Some of both, Wink. I've used the 30 MM Swaro PH line of scopes on many rifles. They are great scopes and the Z6 line is even better but both scope lines are "plus size". Putting a heavy scope on a lightweight big bore is just asking for trouble.

Also, I just don't see the optical utility in putting a 10X scope on a 404 Jeff.

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:
I can definately see your points, in favor of illum. recticule, with Cape Buffalo, dark shawdows,etc. but given the clarity of the Z6 1.7-10x42mm do you still think it makes that bit a difference?

I do. Honestly.
While I appreciate the optics of the Swaro (have Swaro binos myself, worth every cent of the €2,000 list price; and have many friends w7 Swaro scopes on their rifles), the illum. reticle is surprisingly good and useful.
In daytime, it is seldom needed, true enough, but especially if you choose a trim reticle (crosshairs instead of thicker lines), it easily "disappears" in the background and/or shrub. That's when the illum. dot comes to its own. As well as in speedy situations.
The downside is weight and price, but in this package both are quite negligible despite your desire for a light rifle.

quote:

The 1x6 would be my choice on a 458 but I am reasoning the 1.7-10x42mm would add a bit more flexibility for an all around rifle choice.

Hm - in poor lighting, yes, but in daytime and morning/evening dusk I think not needed. And even the 42mm tube is not enough when it gets dark. Then you really need the 56mm, I'm afraid.

Also, I see no point in magnification above 6x. I know I'm pretty alone on this one, but IMO unless you shoot bench rest @ long distance (and maybe at a very small target), a big magnification is not useful at all.
The wider field of view plus the ability to mount low are more important traits to me. It is a matter of balancing the preferences, of course!

quote:

Always take two rifles with me on extended trips (have had the need before) and always an extra scope....have a 1.5x5 Leupold already as a back-up, hence the extra 1" set of rings.

Good thinking.

- Lars

I have a Swarofski Z6 1.7X10 with the 4A illuminated reticle on an AHR 375 H&H.

Just returned from Namibia and used it Kudu, Warthog, Blk and Blue Wildebeast. Liked the illuminated reticle a lot especially against a dark animal (Black Wildebeast) or in shade or limited light. Always like the option and it allows for a precise aim point in less than optimum conditions.

Also have the Z6 1X6 EE on a 375 flanged with the illuminated circle dot reticle, and like it a lot also.

Am having a 416 Rigby being built and I'am toying with putting the 1.7X10 on it as it will also be used for plains game in addition to Cape Buffalo. The 1.7 has a wide field of view at the low setting that should not be a problem at close range.

May also have a 1X6 set up for a back-up scope.