And you did it. As it should be. No stuff like the goofy
hype that the shooting industry is turning out..
That is what I refer to. And what bothers me.
Has she got one this year yet? We all can be proud of her.Ed

Now we have the above being touted, in calbers that
sissys could shoot. The gunwriters and manufacturers
are turning gunnies into an image of being brain dead(falling for every fad)and sissys(chickenshit).First trying to get gun owners into buying every new short fat crap coming along to save 4 oz of gun wt,
and saying you can do drop deer instantly with one
of the super short say 30 cals but yet the 3ooWin will fail with same bulletsd and speed, and try to convince you that it can be done without
recoil pain. Which is realy a function of gun wt, pads,
stock design, etc.They are going way too far and damaging the image of the shooting fraternity..Ed.

Ed,

Look on the bright side, you already have many of these sissy loads baked into your latest projects. Such as 12 ga slugs for the 700 HE, etc, etc.

I really don't see an advantage to them either. For my kids I just load down a 30-30, with 100 or 125 gr bullets, and let them get used to the gun going bang and moving when they fired it.

ASS_CLOWN

You may be thinking of 12GA Fh using slugs of 750 gr wt
that we start testing with, but at 25-3000 fps or more it's
not sissy load.And it is ok to load down cal you mention
to get people started. But writers and companies advertizing and pushing that term 'managed recoil',and
insisting that caliber will do as good as regular competition, is just to lowbrow to me.They are insulting and demeaning shooters.Ed.

My 9-year-old son is just learning to hunt and I'm currently out of a loading setup. Giving him this ammo and a 30-06 that I can restock when he gets bigger is a pretty elegant solution. Okie John.

It's a damnyankee liberal plot...(tongue only partly in cheek).
Some people would profit from having others believe that the laws of physics or nature can be changed for the sake of convenience or political correctness.
I would be greatly dissapointed if reality didn't eventually sort out these kinds of things.
I the meantime, take comfort in the idea that the fools who are being parted with their money are not buying up the really good stuff that the rest of us are saving our nickles to buy.

Precisely the reason I don't read gun rags anymore. When I first started shooting and hunting I subscribed to or read just about everyone out there. I rarely peruse them at the newsstand. About the only time I will pick one up isif someone does an article on one of the classic rounds, especially if it's a big-bore round. All the new super-duper short wondermags look too much like my ex-wife (Oops, did I say that?)



Anyway.... None of them will do anything any better than any of our grand old 30.30's, 30.06,s, H&H's, 470', 416's, or any of the other rounds that have been around for nearly a century or more have been doing all along. There's a reason the 30-30 and 30-06 have been around for over a century and remain at the top of rifle and ammo sales year after year. There's a reason the H&H's, 416Rigby and 470NE have been around for nearly a century. Because they do everything we ask of them and more and do it consistently. That and they're just damn sexy rounds to look at. Long, slender, and curvy=sexy. Short, fat, and with corners=not!



Oh yeah, as far as 'managed recoil" cartridges go. If you can't handle the recoil of a cartridge, don't use it. These "managed recoil" loads have to be sacrificing power to bring down recoil. There is nothing "unmanly" about using a smaller caliber that you can shoot well over a larger one that you can't. I feel pretty safe in the assumption that all you PHs will agree that you would rather see someone toting a 375 for ele or buff that they can shoot well over a 416 or 470 that they can't.

Like yesterday. It deer season here. Friend tell me his buddy's new Wussam or whatever in 270 is over a 1000 fps faster than another friends regular old 270. And it don't kick, its got 'managed recoil'.I showed him that neither kicked, by letting him shoot my 458HE blaster.Explained that
a 270 from cases of same capacity will be nearly the same,
and him and friend need to take all the hype with an
application of common sense.Freind read about it and assumed he had it, when all he really has is a 270,
in new shape and expensive package.You see it in big bore lore now also; IE we are going short and fat and every
mm a case is shorter is supposed to get 100 fps extra velocity or some such ideas.Ed.

Jeez

I thought you guys were kidding. So I did a Google search of 'managed recoil' which took me to the Remington site. I'll bet they shoot like a damn in a 710!!

Hunting last month, went to the spring for water. Left my rifle in camp, it was mid-afternoon and I didn't feel like packin' it and 4 gallons of water back to camp. On the way down I ran into a guy who was camped in the same area but not "one of us". He volunteered to go along and give a hand with the agua. I said sure, BTW nice rifle ya got there. What ya shootin? '06 he says. Well, almost to the waterhole and what do we see, but a nice buck up the hill about 200yd away (he guessed it to be at least 300 or 350). He dropped down got a rest and fired and missed and fired and missed again. Buck bounds up the hill and over the top he goes. First thing the guy says is "Damn, I knew I shoulda' brought the Ultramag". BTW, I killed a nice buck the next AM with my old 30 Govt '06 M70 loaded with 150gr Winchester round noses.

I think they are a good idea. Not everyone reloads.

My wife was shooting an 8 1/2# 308 win that is about as much recoil as she can handle accurately 180 grain core-lok. Problem is that the rifle is too heavy for her to hunt with.

The managed recoil ammo has given me the idea of going ahead and getting a light 308 and using lets say 130 barnes triple shock X at 2700 or so. At least until she gets used to the recoil. Then I can go to a heavier bullet.

I also like the new short fat crap.

I am interested to see if Kimber will make the 325 WSM in a 8400 Montana. At just over 6 pounds I would be interested.

I guess I am missing the point here, with all this WSSM stuff.

If you want to save weight, cut the barrel down, were most of the weight in a rifle exists.

Powder is powder and getting slightly higher belocities may be true but so what? First the SSSSM cartridges cut down rifle weight but it also gives higher velocity and more recoil. Sounds like it chases itself in a circle. Is this managed recoil?

And decreased magazine capacity!

This appears to me as so much sales-oriented bullshit.

This is from an add selling Remington!

"Product Description: .22 Long Rifle Managed-Recoil Rimfire Cartridges, 25-Grain #10 Shot Bullet, 50 Rounds Per Box"

How much "KICK" do you think that they took out of these?

Remington seems to be a big promoter of M-R........They also have it 12ga. slugs and buckshot, .270, 30-06 and 7mag.

My favorite is the 22!

Not a flame Ed but my 2 cents:
Crap it may be but I really don't mind corporate maketing plots that keep gun companies financially sound and/or entice new shooters into an essential American sport.

An otherwise goofy name like "managed recoil" is probably targeting the young, women and and other non-shooters as much as anyone. I hope it works. Women are the largest growing sector of the shooting sports and we need everyone we can get.

We ought to take a live-and-let-live attitude on this but not necessaarily excuse lazy or dishonest writing in the gun mags, though.

Hmmm.....I agree that gun companies need to do something to keep things new and make money, and the fact that people will go in for new cartridges that don't do anything better than the old lineup keeps them in business. The more they sell hopefully the lower the prices as well.

BUT that doesn't mean that managed recoil isn't a load of crap. There have been ammo offerings for the 06 for example in every imagineable weight for a long time, shoot the ones that don't recoil as much. As much as I HATE muzzle brakes I would say they are a better solution. Why? because then you are practicing with the same ammo, sighted for it, so you know what is going to happen when you shoot it, take the brake off and put the cover on when you go hunting. The adrenaline will take care of the recoil for you.

It is good that new shooters be brought into the sport, but the single biggest bringer of new blood is US. I offer to just about every person I know, coworkers, friends, family, to take them shooting. and I will provide the ammo on the first outing as well. I have subsequently gotten a couple of friends hooked pretty good.

as far as carrying a heavy rifle and the advantage of short cartridges. You can make a really light rifle in a standard cartridge. You could also never make the mistake of carrying a light rifle then you wouldn't miss it. My rifles all way too much, my 375 at 8.5 unscoped is noticeably "light". My stepfather carrys a 30/40 krag most of the time now and never complains about weight. I have handled it and it is pretty weighty. I can understand for goat or sheep where you are carrying a big pack and going for days up extreme climbs every ounce will count, but for most of what we do I'll stick with a standard cartridge in a standard rifle.

Red

I think the managed recoil loads, why they call em that I'll never know, are a great idea. Lotsa folks don't reload and only wanna buy one gun. Say Dad wants to get his kid a gun but he's still kinda young. He gets em the .308 or .30-06 the kid can grow into. Why should the poor kid have to endure full power loads, develop a flinch, and probably develop a healthy dislike for the rifle, just cuz Dad can't afford two guns?

Or say you got a couple of rifles and you want to introduce your gal pal to shooting. Again, your not a handloader. Say your smaller rifle is a .308. What the heck is so wrong about stoking it with "managed recoil" loads? You'd rather she get the crap beat out of her and develop a distaste for shooting rather than find it pleasurable and want to get more involved? Hell, half the grown men I know don't even like shooting a .30-06. That's the reality. Not everyone is a real He-Man like you guys.

You all handload anyway so what's it to ya?

Dago, it is crap to someone like us who are enthusiasts with relatively in-depth knowledge (that'll be debated! ) but its "new and improved" to a lot of people who just want something "new and improved".

Do not even go the "it's hardly an improvement" argument 'cause we're talking marketing here, not facts. It's nothing more wrong than car companies changing body styles regularly to keep up interest in new vehicles or introducing a new color of red. There was nothing wrong with the old color red, eh? Some people are just attracted to something different and if it flips their skirt, more power to 'em.

I'm a Mauser and wood kind of guy and like old crap no one else likes like the 9.3x57 and 303 and 30-40 but I wouldn't say a single negative word about this particular type of "diversity".

Ahhhh, people don't read me carefully, I didn't say that loads that recoil less are crap, I noted that they have been around for a while, my stepfather buys off the shelf loads for my mom to shoot in her 06 (she has almost no concept of recoil, she'll shoot till her arm pops off, but he doesn't want her to get abused or develop a flinch). I said that "managed recoil" was bunk. But if it reminds people that there are low power rounds out there then it is good marketing for them and that is why they are doing everything, to make sales. I don't blame them for that. You just won't see my buying any "managed recoil" stuff soon. I will admit to buying that Hornady "light magnum" stuff though. I don't load for my 270 and keep a box of that around for when I hunt with it. (box is still almost full by the way because I am not a successful hunter

I disagree by the way with starting a kid out on a rifle with only a different load. A rifle for a kid should really be sized for the kid, then as they grow a larger pad put on or something. I understand some people don't have a lot of money, but you could get one gun and cut the end of the butt off and put a shorter pad on until they get bigger. The difference in LOP isn't really that much in numbers but makes a difference for a kid.

Personally I go in for blue and walnut too, but fully intend on liking synthetic and stainless when I run out of excuses for the wife on why I need more rifles. "but honey, I need one in a weather resistant version now for late season when there's snow on the ground". I am also reserving the ambidextrous card for if I get real desperate and need left handed rifles.

Red

I read you right; we are just talking around each other. You're right, the term "Managed Recoil" is a nonsensical term that was probably focus-group tested and found to work in spite of our opinion. I was just discussing the value of good marketing separate from any real practical value.

I started the down road with the stainless/synthetic stuff. My guess is that its a circular path and one day I'll wish I hadn't traded off so much of it .

Light Magnum is another of those oxymoronic terms that works anyway. Why didn't they just call it "Super-Duty" or "Extra Strength" like every damn thing else people buy?

Don't even get me started on "Heavy Magnum".

I'm not talking size of the gun but recoil. I am the same size today only fatter as I was when I got my first .30-06 at 15. I never seemed to notice the recoil hunting but hated spending time at the bench. Somebody clued me in to ways to fix that but most are not so lucky.

Sure, a rifle should fit the shooter but I'd bet that 90% of the gun buying public is likely using rifles that don't really fit them.

Even if one gets, say a Ruger compact which fits smaller kids great, they would still benefit from the lower recoil of these cartridges.

I don't think "ambidextrous" will generate sufficient sympathy. Try "bursitis" in the old shoulder.

They use these stupid terms cuz they werk.

I like those light magnum loads. Maybe we should suggest alternate names like, "Ass Kicking", or "Really Brutal", "Heavy Kicking".

Give me a box of those "Bone Crushing" .30-06's please! You sure you don't want the "Really Brutal". Naw, better give me the "magnum recoil" instead.

That's it! As a red blooded, meat eating, Jack Daniels drinking American I want an American name. Forget "managed recoil", we'll call it "paper slaughter". Light magnum will now be one of your great phrases. I like bone crushing because it is open ended, to non gun nuts they'll think it is crushing the animals bones, to those of us that shoot them we'll know its our bones being crushed. Varmint ammo can be "bloodsplat" or "vapo-rodent".

Red

Actually I thought "Managed Recoil" was going to be a purely Canadian marketing effort. How surprised was I?

I think they got some good names for varmint ammo, though. My favorite is Canadian Mist.

Canadian Mist--HaHAh--The term "managed recoil" sounds
as if gun mags are hiring antigun soccer moms for gun writers.
That's my grip, that the industry and gun writers do this,
and a lot of other weird stuff, but when a bunch of us
from all over country went to them and major gun orgs to
get them to set up a shooting sports tv network, to
counteract the effect of antis and soccer moms, they
ducked under the table so to speak.Ed

Many thanks to my ghost writer, Ibin Dreenkin.



edited to get the right brother.

that's fantastic! I think I am going to get some plain white boxes and label them Canadian Mist when I go to the squirrel shoot in March. That's priceless.

Red

I personally think they're great idea. I started my daughter, at 11 years old, deer hunting with my Mauser FR-8 in 308 Win. which I converted to Scout configuration. Size-wise it's a nearly perfect kid gun; short, light, EASY to shoot, and accurate. Problem is, light guns KICK, especially to children. So, I cast some .30 caliber 172 gr. HP's. loaded them to 1900 fps (very similar to Federals reduced recoil load). End result: a kid who's not recoil shy and has 3 deer to her credit in 3 seasons, with only 3 shots.
FWIW
35Whelen

Mr. Hubel:
You have to admit it's kind of ironic that the same people that load ammo for us at max velocity, and pressure, are now finally offering reasonable recoil stuff.

375 H&H, IIRC, is a low recoil, or, at least, 40K pressure round in the first place. Now everything you buy is 55K pressure, or more, and it kicks like heck.

I would like to see the difference in velocity, and pressure these rounds offer. I know in handguns, I'd be quite happy with 260 grain 45 colt, at 1200. No one loads them. Either 1350 or higher, or cowboy, 900 fps loads.

Perhaps the same could apply to 30-06, and 308? For a slight pressure drop the rounds could indeed perhaps do the job?

s