The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores The decline of the Model 70Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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When did the new CRF Model 70s come out?? What, 1993, 1994?? Anyway, at what point did they start to go sour? Was it just the last couple of years of production? From 2000 on? I'm trying to figure out if there were actually any good quality years of the new CRF Model 70. If so, when? Thanks. | ||
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Before 1964. | |||
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I owned and still do own some of them and have no complaints with any of them. If they went sour it wasn't evident on the ones I owned and still own. | |||
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The 2nd generation CRF Model 70 was never very good out of the box. the past 6 or 7 years they have had all kinds of quality problems. | |||
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I have bought 6 over the past 7 years. One was a problem feeding properly but the rest are fine. One, a .300 Win Mag, shoots 1/2" or less with Federal factory ammo. Darned if I know why it shoots so well... | |||
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Since the 'NEW' Mdl 70 came out I have bought 5 375's 1 338,1 300,1 308Heavy Bbl and have had Zip problems with any of them. I still have one of the 375's and have used it extensively in Zim and one has been in use by the PH I gave it to in Zim since then with no problems. I don't see a lot on the used racks and I am a constant visitor to a couple of good gunshops. If they are bad they don't seem to be resold with great frequency. Also had a pushfeed 'Carbine' model in 223 that was the most accurate 223 I've ever owned. I was scared to take it out of the stock for far I would screw it up. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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I bought a left handed 375 H&H in 2004 and except for the "bedding" done with hot glue, I have no complaints at all. The fit and finish is better than any other factory gun that I have. The trigger set to 3.5 lbs easily. With a 4X scope it shoots sub MOA and feeds like greased snake shit through a hose. I did change the cast extractor for a Williams though (it already had the one piece bottom metal). Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Problems I have seen: Rounds pop out of the top of the magazine. Floorplate falls open. Rough bolt travel. Crap accuracy (rough barrels). Crooked scope base hole drilling. Rough trigger. Bad bedding. Loose and crooked iron sights. | |||
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My experiences mirror those of 500 grains. Now I automaticallt take a model 70 classic action and have it "blue printed" from the get go. Out of seven, two have been of by .006" at the receiver face. Only two came with halfway decent lug contact. One had a scope hole so far out of alignment (1994 date of manufacter) that it had to be plugged and a new hole drilled and tappped. Converting to 8-40 would not have centered it up even. One had a floor plate so loose I called the rifle "Sally the Spiller". No two had safety/sear/trigger assemblies that felt the same. Etc. ad nauseum. LD  | |||
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The reason I ask is that I have read and heard from several people that the last few years of Model 70s have had a lot of problems. How does one define "a lot of problems" is anyone's guess. Furthermore, I know that one should not believe everything he reads (or hears). However, that has been the word and I was just trying to get some feedback from those in the know (specifically, those who own later Model 70s). | |||
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ditto for 500gr in my personal experience. I am just talking about rifles I have personally fired (in a few cases tried to fire). PF model 70's are just a psss-poor imitation of a model 700. I would not own one...and any purchase of a CRF post-64 would have to be a bargain basement sale price to get me to even look at it. JMHO Rich | |||
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Oh yeah Landrum: take a can of dykem blue with you and coat the lugs, then work the bolt 5-6 times. Check the bolt lugs to see if they bear evenly and completely. Then take a look at the lug contact area on the barrel. I saw one a week or so back, and one lug had zero-percent!!!!! bearing surface. The owner casually explained that it was a "spare for when/if the other one sheared off. Sort-of a safety feature!! I 'bout fell on the floor. Rich | |||
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The new model 70's can be made into a reliable gun. But it takes about 500 bucks in gunsmithing. | |||
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square shooter | |||
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I think the problems are the same across just about every factory mass produced rifle these days regardless of brand...although some manufacturers are more guilty than others. Once you have owned a factory rifle action that has been truly worked over by a competent gunsmith or a custom action of superior quality...everything else feels sub par. I think people who truly appreciate a well crafted quality firearm represent a minority of the overall gun buying public. The majority of other buyers are either ignorant of the problems associated with factory mass production or just don't seek out alternative solutions. Just my opinion. | |||
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lb404, no offense taken...I have those days m'self. It is just that I have owned so many P64's over the past thirty-five years, that the newer ones make me sad. I have never had any problems with them. As an example, I have this friend that is going to Mali in the spring to hunt the un-cape buffalo species. He bought a PF M70 in 7mm Rem Mag after hearing that they could be rebarrelled in 458 Lott and made into a dependable DGR. My favorite gunsmith spent three months trying to get that sob to feed 458 rounds. Didn't happen. I felt sorry a bit for Phil and traded him one of my oooold (sn:28,xxx; originally a 270) M70's for a SAA and a bit of $$$. In three days Dick had the barrel switched to the oldie M70, the follower thinned 1/2 the diameter difference of the 270 and 458Lott, and had the rifle feeding three rounds out of the original length 270 magazine. He now has a deadnuts dependable DGR and something that he can proudly show folks. Nothing (IMHO) beats a P64-70 in the 375-size cartridges for dependability when your life is on the line. You have a mis or failure to feed on a Kudu, you are out some $$$ and respect. You fluff a shot on any of the currently legal to hunt Big Five and you instantly become the hunted instead of the hunter. People get killed every year like that. Ditto for magnum mauser actioned rifles. Me, when I head out in the spring I'm packing my Rem M1934 CF 510 Kayser Express with my Whitworth 458 Lott for a spare. regards, Rich | |||
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500grains is right on the mark. That is almost exactly what I paid Mark Penrod to put the mess that was my new M70 Safari Express in order. That was after 2 trips back to Winchester to correct its problems. The first trip back was to reblue the barrel where the factory left clamp marks all over it. It also wouldn't feed from the magazine and the safety didn't function properly. When I got it back from Winchester the bolt stop fell out of the gun when I took it out of the box and it wouldn't cock. The cheap, crummy, worthless hot glue bedding also fell out when I removed the barrelled action from the stock. Sent it back to Winchester a second time. Got it back and it still wouldn't feed. Sent it to Mark and told him to do whatever he had to do to make it reliable, which meant a pillar bedding job, trigger job, trigger and bolt stop re-pin, safety timing, magazine work, etc. The happy result is it now works beautifully and I love it. It is very accurate and after Mark's work is smooth as silk and feeds and functions flawlessly. What I paid Mark is some of the best money I've ever spent. Andy | |||
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I have 3 model 70 classics and 3 pre 64 featherweights. Never problem 1 with anyof them as far as function goes. My classic .338 is no tack driver , but shoots well enough. My pre64 featherweight 270 is sitting on consignment at my smiths shop. Would ,nt shoot worth a hoot even afyer a pac-nor barrel and a rimrock stock. I hjave seen some of the classics that did not look good at all, but I sure have had no trouble with min...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fjold: I bought a left handed 375 H&H in 2004 and except for the "bedding" done with hot glue, I have no complaints at all. GOOD post Fjold. I read a review of the "new CRF M70" some years ago. At that time it was clamed that the material use to bed that action and barrel is a "thermal plastic" obviously injected hot into the inleted spaces of the stock. I have this stuff in my 2005 M70 Classic Safari Express. I was experiencing vertical string of my group from cold barrel to hot the point of impact climbed 3 inches! I gambled that the cause was the barrel mounted recoil lug pressing on the wadd of thermal plastic bedding in the forearm during warm up. So I used my Dremel tool to route/mill out just one millimeter of the top surface of this bedding. I fired the rifle yesterday and did not see any cold to hot barrel vertical shot stringing. | |||
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500 grains has it right, about $500 in gun smithing will put it right. My son has a M70 Win in .375, purchased in 1997-8, which punches cloverleafs at 100 yds with an action as smooth as silk. Yet, I purchased a custom room .375 from Win a few years ago,in a moment of weakness at a good price, and it has a rougher action and is not as accurate. It is a shame that Winchester did not see their way clear to put a fine quality rifle out for $1600-1800. It would sell, especially with the larger calibers for DG hunting. Presently, I am not impressed with the CZ big bores at over $2k or the Dakotas at over $4k. Dak | |||
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I bought a M70 Safari Express last November, and at the time, the only problem seemed to be minor feeding issues with RN bullets, specifically the 300gr Hornady. The time came to finally mount a scope on it, a new Leupold VX-III 1.75-6 that I got for free (thank you Cabela's bucks!!). I mounted it in a set of Talley's and when I fired it, all the bullets were hitting at least 3 feet low at 100yards!!! And that was with the scope maxed out!!! So, off to Mark Penrod for some improvements  , of whom I highly suggest. Great work!! Anyway, Winchester didn't mill the receiver face square, so the barrel was "bent" downward when it was threaded in. Mark fixed the issue, slicked up some other goodies, and now my M70 is a first rate rifle. Good gun??? Yes, but in need of a little TLC to make it an excellent gun!!"The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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I gave my wife a .338 Super Grade M70 back in '95 (I think). If I could've met the people who built this particular rifle, I'd have shaken their hands and congratulated them. As one who likes American Classic rifles, and with fifty years of owning and USING rifles now behind me, I think this one is FLAWLESS. The wood is very well-figured and attractive, the fitting of pad, swivel bases (inletted into the stock) and forend tip are perfect, as is the shadow-line cheekpiece, and general inletting appears excellent. I say "appears", because I've NEVER had the rifle out of the stock. It shoots like a dream, and both of us find the trigger-pull to be just about right at 3.5 pounds-crisp, right from the box... which is the main reason it's never been taken down. Functioning is very smooth and feeding is reliable, even with a variety of cast bullets. I'm very sorry to hear that so many of us have had poor experiences with later M70s. There's literally not a thing I'd change on this '95 version. Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1) | |||
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Hell I have over 100 pre-64's and 20 or so classics. I have had a damn few of either that were bad. Could they have been improved upon--- certainly. Were any as perfect as an Echols Legend, no. I could have owned a whole shop ful of Classics for the price of a Legend and been about as happy. I own more custom rifles than I care to mention. Each is special and being made in calibers that were never offered by the factory, there are some issues. It is how those issues are addressed and the results that count. That is why the original 98 Mauser is still a great design and so desireable. It is why the pre-64 Model 70 is still commanding more than 70 times its original price. Why are there no custom rifles made by Steve Heilman or Darcy Echols made with Savage actions. Surely the Savage is more than accurate enough. The name is sexy but the action is butt ugly. No custom rifles for this ugly duckling. The point is that the Winchester is about as close to the ideal action to make into a true upper class hunting rifle. One doesn't need different trigger or a better safety or custom bottom metal or a better stock to be spot on. One only need to see that it feeds well and that the bedding is right and the trigger is adjusted properly and then you have a rifle. Hell Echols and Miller can't be all wrong. square shooter | |||
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