I have an empty spot between a .375 H&H and a .458 Lott, that needs filling. The gun will hopefully get to Africa with me when I make another trip, but will mostly chase deer and elk. I'm thinking about a M70 in .416 Remmington, a CZ550 or a Ruger Express in .416 Rigby, a Ruger No. 1 in either of the .416's, or maybe a Mauser in .416 Taylor or .404 Jeffries. What do those who have one of these think about their personal choice? Anybody have any suggestions, or anything they are interested in selling or trading?

I think the 404 or 416 Taylor would be great choices. The 404 if you're a pure traditionalist, or the little 416 if you can break from that mold just a little. I like the 416 Taylor - it seems to be very efficient and components for it are quite available. I've got a barrel, a mauser action, dies - but need to get some other projects done first.

Either cartridge will satisfy your "in the middle" needs. The 404 can turn out some impressive ballistics when loaded in modern guns to modern pressures. The Taylor, even if you get 2300 fps from it with 400 grain bullets will do all you can ask of a 416 bore.

Of course, this is all based on what I've learned, not what I've experienced...yet.

redleg

LNB,

Get any rifle you like in 416 Rigby. After that get one in 404 Jeffery, so you won't have gap in your collection.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

I would suggest that you get a 500 Jeffrey made on a Mauser and let the 458 Lott default to the middle caliber.

Mike

I like the 416 Rem Mag, and believe it will do anything any of the 416s will do. The rem 416 is nothing but a 416 Hoffman, in comercial offering with only minor changes to cal it Remington! I don't think there is a better ballanced 416 on the market today than a 416 Rem Mag/416 Hoffman.

The alternative is the 416 Taylor, which is easy to build rifles for, and as someone here stated, componants are behind every bush! One pass through a set of 416T dies, with a 458 win Mag brass, and you have it! All that is nesseccary is to open the bolt face up to mag and polish the feeding up some,and your in business!

All this is just one person's opinion, but I think it is the opinion of others as well!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

May I be so brash as to suggest the ultimate array of firearms that should grace your gun safe:

1. 375 H&H
2. 404 Jeffery built on a commercial 98
3. 416 rigby, probably a CZ550 with a new stock unless you want to put $5K+ in it
4. 458 Lott
5. 500 Jeffery built on a commercial 98, or else 500 A-Square built on an Enfield, Sako 995 or CZ550
6. 585 Nyati built on a commercial 98 or on a CZ550

Then for the muzzle loader season, you might consider a 4 bore smokepole from October Country in Idaho that shoots an 1880 grain round ball.

Or make the .375 your "middle" and drop down to a .318 WR or a .333 Jeff. Bullets for both are available from Hawk and Woodleigh and brass can be formed from the '06 and .404 respectively.
Sarge

Make mine a 416 Rigby. I've got my sights set on a CZ, can't beat the price, even knowing I'll have to toss that stock on the fireplace and go with a custom (WALNUT!!) stock.

lound-n-boomer.....there is a nice looking custom .411 KDF on www.gunbroker.com up for auction at a very nice price....Kahles scope and all the nifty thing you want of a DGR. It is auction # 2297960. I think you can use .41 cal pistol bullets in these cartridge for practice.

I have a 416 Taylor built on the tang saftey Ruger m77 action. I have used it for deer hunting but will take it on an elk hunt in Dec. Brass is easy to form and it is something a little different.

Are you more Nostalgic, or practicle? Since you already have the 375 and the 458, seems this isn't really a practicle choice.

I'd say the 416 Rigby Ruger is a very nice gun for the $, very nostalgic cartridge and style. If you don't have a Ruger #1, you ought to treat yourself to one, and 416 rigby would be the natural choice.

Paul:

If I was practical, I'd stick with what I have. As to the No. 1, I love them. My current deer and antelope rifle is a No. 1A in 7x57. A .416 No. 1 might just be the thing, but . . . . So many guns, so little money.

L-N-B,
Get a 416 Rigby CZ. Everything else after that is gravy. Don't like the stock? Get a new one. The BRNO ZKK 602 stocks (McMillan and Richards Microfit) will fit the CZ 550 Magnum, with minimal modification in the trigger well of the stock.

Nickudu has a line on some synthetic stocks from RSA that are made specifically for the CZ 550 Magnum. They look suspiciously like Bell and Carlson product. That is O.K. by me.

Some of us like those Walnut CZ stocks as they are.

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RAB

R.A.,

Some of us like those Walnut CZ stocks as they are.

I'll send mine to you.

L N B - I have a 100% Super Express .416 if you are interested. Also have a McMillan stock in "Desert Camo" for it.

I would get a 404 Jefferys or a 416 Remington....Why would anyone want a 416 Taylor, now that we have a 416 Remington..A wildcat is not the thing to pack to Africa and Alaska IMHO....Is that 1/4" of bolt through a real deal?? I think not.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,

I don't think it is the extra bolt travel that is the big deal but rather the easier conversion to 416 Taylor, especially if a Model 70 is to be used.

Also you just neck down 458 cases which is a better and easier deal than necking up 375s and then fireforming to 416 Remington.

Mike

If one wanted a standard action 416, then the 404 case, or Rem ultra mag basterdization is the one to use, not the 458 win mag, it made sense in its day, but bigger better cases are available. Drop John Ricks a line star@olypen if you are interested in the howell, he has my reamer, and is assembling a few for folks. It will be set up to use either ultra mag brass, or 404 brass, has rem mag case capacity and performance, yet occupies the same magazene capacity as the 416 taylor.

The real problem with the 416 is there are too many of them, there need only be one world standard, yet we have 2 major factory entries in the 416 rem mag, and the 416 rigby, then we have the proprietaries, starting with the Weatherby, then the Dakota, Lazeroni, and a handful of others. Now Remington is a big numbers maker, and there just isn't the market for big bores to keep them interested, so their entry has had the support fumbled.

So, with that said, perhaps the 416 Rigby has the odds in its favor of becoming the standard, it has the nostalgia market, it has two factories producing rifles for it, its only handicap is exspensive factory fodder, but that could change, though not likely.

Take a look at the Ruger 77 Magnum rifle in .416 Rigby. Yeah, it is a little pricey, but it works. They come with exceptional wood for a factory rifle, integral barrel... My has 400+ shots through it with no problems at all( cracked stock ). Although, I am working something out to improve the recoil lug situation to be as robust as it should be.

Mike,
Since all M-70 Win are mag action (except that new shorty) all one has to do is knock the block out of the mag, open the bolt face and rechamber, same as the 416 Taylor..except on the taylor you don't need to knock the block out, but thats not but a 2 minute chore..Seldom is rail work required on either.

With the 416 Rem, one just simply buys brass, with a proper head stamp for about $34.00 per hundred...why ruin good 375 brass.

The Taylor had a place at one time but the advent of the 416 Rem. voided it for all but wildcat buffs who just want to play, and thats OK, but that is its only justification IMHO. Well, maybe not so humble but you know what I mean....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,

I would not disagree with what you are saying (of course I would like to ) but I still think the average shooter simply sees the 416 Taylor as easier and with less chance for things to go wrong.

eg. most would want the rear receiver ring cut back but that all seems like an obstacle and especially if a new mount screw hole is to be drilled and the gunsmith they deal with is basically a barrel fitter only.

As to availabilty of factory ammo in way of places, I don't think that is really an issue for most 416 Taylor or 416 Rem (in fact from 375 H&H through to 585 Nyati) owners as I would bet 95% or more of these rifles will not shoot more than local American game, rocks, trees and tin cans.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 11-05-2001).]

Although the Remington is a practical cartridge I like the Taylor. Especially in a mauser or a pre-64 action. I must say though that the 416 is probably one of the better cartridges Remington has brought out. Regards, Bill.

I agree with Bill that the 416 rem mag is one of Remington's better offerings.

Now if they would just get rid of the model 700 and offer a good bolt action...

Ray:

Your point about factory headstamped brass is a good one, since there is an excellent chance that the gun will end up with me in Africa. At this point I'm leaning toward the .416 Remington in a Model 70, with a .416 Rigby CZ in second place, and a Ruger No. 1 in either caliber a distant 3rd.

l-n-b

Brass with the .416 Taylor headstamp is available.

Put me along with Bill and 500gr. Much as I dislike the Remington company and most of their offerings (that's MOST, not all) I must admit that the .416 version is a delight, from both a ballistic and a practical standpoint. I don't have any particular use for one but I feel quite confident recommending it to others. They done real good, stealing that idear from George.
Sarge

I sure like my .416 Taylor. I chose it because I had the action first (a std length BBR), and wanted to mate it to a big bore. After having played with it a little, I am happier with it than I would ever have imagined.

If I had the moolah, my first choice would have been (and still is) a .416 Rigby, primarly due to the historical/nostalgic appeal. An original Rigby in that calibre is pretty well my ultimate dream rifle.

Nothing wrong with the .416 Rem/Hoffman either though. If your just looking to get into a factory .416, with no fuss & no muss, thats your ticket. Just keep your fingers crossed Remington doesn't discontinue ammo sales, as that would remove its greatest advantage.

FWIW, Canuck