If these forums are any guide, it seems to be dead compared to the 378 and 460.

I had a Japanese one and found it better to work with than either the 378 or 460. I think this hada lot to do with the convetnional throat rather than the super long freebore found in the 378 and 460s.

Perhaps it is a victim of the CZ 550 in 416 Rigby.

Mike

Never have heard of an inaccurate 416 Weatherby,but of course you never hear of an inaccurate 460 either,at least from those who can hold them steady from the bench.

It's a nice piece between the 378 and 460,but lacks the super-flat trajectory of the 378,and the enormous power of the 460.

When it comes to a cape buffalo cartridge,it might just about be perfect.For those who can handel the recoil and shoot it well (and are smart enough to shoot premium bullets),it supposedly works like white lightning on most big,mean African game.

I know one thing-I'd sure like to have one!

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

I would say the 416 WBY HAS the flat trajektoty of the 378 AND the power of the 460 = a better choice for allround BIG game use.
Loading it to 2750-2800 f/s without exessive pressure from a 25-26" barrel is no special trick.
And a 400 grs Barnes Mono solid ( or barnes X) will exit almost anything at that vel

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UH

The same shooter who does good work with his .378 Weatherby will do even more precise work, with greater consistancy and less concern about bullet performance with a .375 Weatherby or H&H. Likewise, with the .416 Wea., .416 Rigby, .416 Remington. Likewise, the .460 Weatherby, .458 Lott. IMHO.

Ulrik,

Out to 300 yards,the 416 Weatherby shoots very flat,but not quite as flat as the 378.Past 300 yards,the 378 leaves it in the dust.

Nickudu,
My dad had a 460 back in the 70s.It'd consistently put three shots into a perfect clover leaf at 100 yards,from the bench.How much more precise do you need?

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

Brian M. - "from the bench", as you put it, is not necessarily indicative of how effectively the rifle will be employed in the field. I've bench-shot clover leafs with a .505 Gibbs too but I know enough to state the rifle can't be handled across a myriad of field conditions with the same aplomb as that of a lesser cartridge. I didn't think my point was particularly hard to grasp.

Brian,

The difficulty is using this stuff from improvised rests in the field.

I have owned 2 460s and 2 378s plus had very direct involvement with 2 other 378s so I am not without some experience with these calibers.

But I can tell you, that shooting roos and pigs, the 375 H&H eats up the 378 in the field.

Although I think if the 378s would have had KDF brakes on them, it might have been different.

The problem with the big kickers is that you can't just let them sit across a rest the way you do a 270, 30/06 or of course the 375 H&H.

Mike

Brian,

Just to add to my previous post.

Firstly we have right had drive cars and also shoot from the vehiche.

Many years ago I was shooting a 458 with full loads and 500 Hornadies and was a passenger.

The driver caught sight of a pig that was behind us and just off from the passenger side of the car. I tried to shoot back out through the window at what was obviously a bad angle

Two things occured.

The pig was shot and the rifle flew up and sideways and ended the life of the scope

It appears that the Landcruiser door assembly is stronger than the scope.

That does not happen with the 375.

I know you blokes don't shoot froma vehichle but I will still give you another example.

Try shooting bigger than 375 (remember we are right hand drive) when you are the driver and you rest your rifle on a little sandbag on the side rear vision mirror. And as well, do it several times.

I can give you an iron clad guarantee that if you like shooting big rifles you will have an instant love affair with 375 H&h as compared to bigger calibers and bigger recoil

Mike

Nickudu and Mike375,

Since in these parts we don't hunt or shoot from cars,tree stands,ect.,we don't have to worry about that.

An "improvised field rest" to me is sitting and shooting off my knees.I'd never shoot at anything in the field from the prone position,since I shoot just as steady from the sitting position,which BTW is one of the most comfortable positions to shoot from with a big bore rifle,at least for me.

Also-a 378,416 or 460 with an Accubrake (Weatherby's serious rip off of a KDF)has around the same recoil as a 375 H&H or,for the 460,a 416 Remington.

One more thing-you are right Nickudu,the older 460s with no brakes or the Pendelton De-Kicker could NOT be shot from just about any position other than from the bench or off hand.That's why my dad ended up not hunting much with his,all though he did kill one buck with it with the old style Hornady 350 grain RN (at that point it was very soft compared to todays version with the Interloct)at 2950 FPS.It ended up being a full length body shot from his neck through his pelvis.The only thing salvageable was the hams,and only because the bullet split in two at the pelvis.Talk about meat damage from hydrolic displacement!

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

I never shot a free ranging critter! But I was asked to shot a 1200lb bovine bull who needed a attitude adjustment. I used a Speer 350 MT at excess of 2800 fps, but not by much. The bull jumped up and spun around and then kicked once then expired. The farmer ( a hunter of deer ) was impressed as was I. The bullet had completely penetrated the bull, and showed a three inch exit hole on the opposite side, the bullet went on to smash itself some where in the hill side behind the bull. I waited for ten months to get my 416 wby then waited one year to get Weatherby to get there custom shop together...They just moved...Then they refused to sell me the express sights from the African rifle. Witch by the way they did on my 460. So I had to get a scope on my 416 ..I didn't want to .. I placed a Leopold 6X 43MM on the 416. I can hit a 4x4 piece of steel hanging out to 300 yards with either 400 Hornady or 350 Speer or Barnes X-Bullet in any weight.

[This message has been edited by Colonel (edited 05-16-2002).]

Brian M:

The flatshooting ability is depending of the bullet in use.
With a GS Custom HV 330 grs .416" bullet vel in the 416 WBY will be around 3100-3150 f/s - that will leave the .378 FAAAAAAAAAAAAR behind...

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UH

Here are the numbers for a 378 Weatherby with a 260 grain Ballistic Tip 3200 FPS.If your 416 Weatherby shoots flatter than this,I'll eat my hat (and I wear a big hat).

Yards Drop in Inches
100 +3.21
200 +4
300 0
400 -9.39
500 -25.2
600 -48.6

Also note that at 500 yards,it's still going 2144 FPS.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

In some respects I have to agree with Mike in that most of the .416 cal rifles would be victims of the cz .416 Rigby at the minute. There good value, especially for people who are cash strapped but want to own a big bore rifle. With sensible handloads the old .416 Rigby is not that far behind the weatherby.

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Brian M

You better start eating..
The GS Custom 330 grs .416" HV bullet has better BC than the 260 grs BT bullet, so at long range the .416 will shoot flatter with the bullet mentioned even though muzzlevelocity is 50-100 f/sec lower. Besides the GS HV bullet can be used on really big game up to buff whereas the 378 with 260 grs BT�s will only be a poor deer/mediumsized antilope cartridge....

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UH

Ulrik,

Please give me the ballistic coefficient of the GS bullet,and the velocity you will be pushing it.No way on earth it shoots as flat as the 378.

You must not know about big game Nosler Ballistic Tios do ya?They are made with an extra heavy jacket.The 260 grain BT is suitable for all North American game,and everything in Africa short of the hard skins.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

Brian,

GS Custom lists a BC of .480 of their .423" (404 Jeff) HV bullet of 320 grs. Unfortunately they do not list the BC of the 330 grs .416 bullet - but it will be even higher (smaller bulletdiameter and 10 grs heavier). I have just mailed Gerard at GS Custom about the specific number.

I can shoot the 330 grs bullet at 3135 f/s (average) with accuracy of 1" at 100 meters from my .416 WBY rifle.
So you better continue eating...

I would NEVER use the Ball Tip 260 grs, .375 on the large antilopes and lion in Africa or brown bear in Alaska (that bullet is only suitable for smaller game and targetshooting - no bonded core , no partition = just a paper bullet)

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UH

Ulrik,

First off,I am VERY skeptical about the velocitys you are getting.What length of barrel do you have?Us Yanks are hard pressed to get 2900 FPS from one with a 26 inch barrel with a 350 grain bullet.

You obviously know nothing of the "big game" version of the Ballistic Tips.Please send Nosler an e-mail telling them that all their info is wrong.

A guy posted on here the other day that his buddy shot a musk ox with the 260 grain BT and the ox died (who woulda thunk it?).I'd say it worked pretty good,and a musk ox is a whole lot bigger animal then an elk or most African plains game.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

[This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 05-17-2002).]

Brian M,
I have shot several muskox in Greenland and a very big bull will weigh around 700-800 Ibs = half size of an eland or costal brownie...
Besides the animal does not have a heavy bone structure and because they are often shot in heards it generally accepted to use quite fragile bullets on them.
I must admit that I don�t give a damn about Noslers advertising of their Ball tips. Do not use them on very heavy game at high velocity , end of subject. These folks will do everything to sell bullets ( like Roy Weatherby who claimed that the 378 was an ideal caliber for elephant...- BS)
I have been a reloader for many years and have hunted big game in 10 different countries. Africa many times incl buffaloes ( this year I am going for buff in Zimbabwe and next year also elephant).
I have a quite good idea of which bullets work based on practice in the field..
I also use Ball Tips, but only on small and medium game then Nosler may say what they want..

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UH

I get 3135 f/s without signs of excess pressure and with good accuracy. Have also tested them under very high temp - no problems either.
My rifle is based on a CZ 550 action with a 25" SS Douglass barrel with 1-12" Twist.
400 grs barnes X bullets : 2760 f/s
330 grs GS HV : 3135f/s ( GS HV bullets will give somewhat higher velocity than ordinary bullets of the same weight with identical pressures )

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UH

Hello Ulrik !

Finally i get to write to you on the net !
I'm the owner of your previous .416 Wby you know, and i go under the "Per577" nickname.
Well, my point is that you get some impressive loads with those 330 grainers,
up to 3150 fps. I'll call you later in the summer, maybe i could come to visit you in Honningsv�g.I must admit that the first thought coming to me was , get those loads, if necessary icould buy a few cartridges to try them out this summer(if possible)
By the way, do you have more info due to A-squares comeback ?
I'm also planning to get me a .505 Gibbs on the big ruger action, and horneber brass for 4 � huntington, i think. That rifle would seriously kick ass !Figure 2900+ with 525 grainers. Or how about buying yours .577 tyr
and all the loads(in my dreams)!!
By the way have you been able to get more than 2715 fps yet ( silly question)and barnes mono solids ????

Ulrik,
With the GS Custom bullet,your 416 Weatherby basically equals the trajectory of a 378 with 300 grain Siearra BTSPs.Here's the numbers-

378 Weatherby,300 grain Siearras

100-+3.39
200-+4.06
300-O
400--9.51
500--25.29
600--48.31

416 Weatherby,330 grain GS

100-+3.39
200-+4.10
300-O
400--9.64
500--25.68
600--49.18

Now of course,we are comparing the 416 to the 378,when the 416 is using the obviously superior GS Custom bullet.Lets see what the 416 does with an "across the counter" bullet-

416 Weatherby,Speer 350 grain Mag-Tip

100-+4.52
200-+5.42
300-0
400--13.3
500--36.52
600--72.31

BUT,what happens when we stick a GS Custom in a 378??Got any numbers handy for one in the 300-320 grain weight?

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

Brian
If you use a GS HV bullet that will change things a bit. They make a HV .375" bullet of 265 grs with a BC of .580 .... - then you can really talk of a flat shooting big bore... (figure 3250 f/s with that bullet !!)

Per
NO - my 577 Tyrannosaur will never be for sale , I�m sorry...
And no I have not acheived more than 2715 f/s with 750 Barnes mono-solid
I will use it in july for buff and I will load it to 2530-2550 f/s to be sure to avoid pressure problems (and recoilproblems..).

If I were you I would build myself a 505 Gibbs or .585 Nyati based on the CZ 550 action - not the Ruger.
But if you load it to 2900 f/s with a 525 grainer then I will NOT shot it - I think pressure will be far to high... ( I know the case is huge but anyway).

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UH

Ulrik,
A 378 will push a 260 grain Nosler 3200 FPS easily.Since you are picking up 235 FPS from the 416,lets assume the same from this,and also use a more conservitive velocity of 3300 FPS (which it would definetly obtain)as a comparison.

With the GS at 3300 FPS-

100:+2.73
200:+3.38
300:0
400:-7.87
500:-20.81
600:-39.43

With GS at 3435 FPS-

100:+2.45
200:+3.07
300:0
400:-7.21
500:-19.06
600:-36.12

Looks like even if you did gain that much velocity over the Nosler,you basically gain nothing in trajectory-just 10 inches or so at 600 yards,and not enough to worry under 500 yards.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

[This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 05-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 05-17-2002).]

Ulrik who is making brass for the .577 t-rex now ??.

What action did you build yours on. Do people do .577 t-rex's on cz 550 action. Just interested to know. I am currently getting a .585 Nyatti built on a 602 action, my mate is getting one as well. We originally wanted a .577 T-rex but got told it is to difficult. It also seems brass is hard to get for it.

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PC
My 577 is an A-Square Hannibal rifle builded on the modified P-14 Enfield action. It works fine. I haven�t heard of any 577 Tyr builded on the CZ 550 Mag action yet, but I think it can be done.
As far as I know Horneber in Germany is the only manufacturer of cases currently.
I have heard that A-Square will be in buissnes again sec half of this year - we`ll see..
I have 300 cases for the 577 TYR and have placed an order of 250 more which I will get in August/September. Then I should have enough for a lifetime (or two) of shooting..

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UH

Ulrik I have ordered 100 cases for my .585 Nyatti from Horneber and all up I will then have 220 cases for my .585. I am going to continue to buy more every now and then just in case they stop making brass for it one day. I would hate to be stuck with a rifle that you could not shoot.

Ulrik have you got any tricks for coping with the recoil or does it not bother you??.

Have you got mercury recoil reducers in your T-Rex??

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PC
Yes , my .577 Tyr has 3 mercury recoil reducers. But no muzzlebreak (I don�t want one..)
Regarding recoil:
It does bother me - of course. From the bench I only shoot reduced loads around 2150 - 2300 f/s with 750 grainers. When shooting max loadings ( 2500 - 2700 f/s ) I only do it standing...
Since the rifle in my opinion is a 50-60 yards weapon I have removed the EER scope and
I am having a ghost ring aperture sight mounted on the rifle which is MUCH better and more accurate than the ordinary express sights.

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UH

quote:

Originally posted by Brian M:
Here are the numbers for a 378 Weatherby with a 260 grain Ballistic Tip 3200 FPS.If your 416 Weatherby shoots flatter than this,I'll eat my hat (and I wear a big hat).

Yards Drop in Inches
100 +3.21
200 +4
300 0
400 -9.39
500 -25.2
600 -48.6

Also note that at 500 yards,it's still going 2144 FPS.



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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

Trajectory Output
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.405 G1 Bullet Weight: 330.00 gr
Caliber: 0.416 in
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3106.7 2.783 7070.9 0.000 0.0 ***
100 1.3 1.2 0.6 0.5 2910.5 2.607 6206.1 0.100 17.6 16.8
200 -0.0 -0.0 2.3 1.1 2722.9 2.439 5431.8 0.206 36.3 17.3
300 -6.0 -1.9 5.4 1.7 2543.0 2.278 4737.8 0.320 56.4 17.9
400 -17.4 -4.1 9.9 2.4 2370.2 2.123 4115.6 0.443 77.9 18.6
500 -35.0 -6.7 16.0 3.1 2204.0 1.974 3558.9 0.574 101.0 19.3
600 -59.7 -9.5 23.9 3.8 2044.5 1.831 3062.4 0.715 125.9 20.0


Trajectory Output
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.473 G1 Bullet Weight: 260.00 gr
Caliber: 0.375 in
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3155.8 2.827 5748.5 0.000 0.0 ***
100 1.2 1.1 0.5 0.5 2985.4 2.674 5144.4 0.098 17.2 16.4
200 -0.0 -0.0 1.9 0.9 2821.5 2.527 4595.0 0.201 35.4 16.9
300 -5.6 -1.8 4.5 1.4 2663.5 2.386 4095.1 0.311 54.7 17.4
400 -16.0 -3.8 8.2 1.9 2511.1 2.249 3639.7 0.427 75.1 17.9
500 -32.0 -6.1 13.1 2.5 2363.7 2.117 3225.1 0.550 96.7 18.5
600 -54.3 -8.6 19.4 3.1 2221.3 1.990 2848.1 0.681 119.8 19.1
15 Oct 2008 08:35:25, JB