The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 470 NE #2Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| <Rune> |
I have never heard of such a cartridge. Do you think it could be a 475 No.2 Nitro Express? If it is a 475 No.2 it was originally loaded with 80 or 85 grains of cordite. It had either a 480 or a 500 grain bullet. Velocity was 2200fps and 2150fps. Bullet diameter was .489. The case is gigantic. Col is almoast 4.5 inches. I found this info in the book "Cartridges of the world" | ||
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| one of us |
I have the Bowen Ruger conversion information in front of me. They are listing the cartridge as a .475 No. 2 with a .488" groove (bullet diameter). Performance is the same as the 470 Nitro Express, but it uses a .488 bullet instead of .475. I am wondering why Bowen is offering this caliber? Bullets in .475 are hard enough to find a selection of and I don't know what is even avaiable in .488. Barnes would make them for custom orders, but that would get very expensive. The case length on this is 3.500" and the OAL is 4.25". I imagine it could be loaded much faster that 2150 with this huge case and the right powder. | |||
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| one of us |
While Bowen may do the old 475 #2 on a Ruger #1, what he calls a 470 #2 is the 416 Rigby case necked up to .475. | |||
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| one of us |
The 416 necked up to 475 would make more sense in the bolt action, however why do they list the bullet size as .488"? When I talk to Bowen next, I will ask him. | |||
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| one of us |
Ken, The 475 #2 and 470 #2 are two entirely different cartridges. The 475 #2 Nitro Express is a huge, (loaded arounds are over 4" long,) rimmed cartridge that has been around for 90 years or so. Bowen chambers #1's in this using the original .488" groove diamter. What he calls the 470 #2 is the 416 Rigby case necked up. He doesn't specifically mention groove diameter on his website, but in his notes at the bottom of the Rifles page, he refers to it as a "475 Rigby". I'm betting this one uses the more common .475" bullets. | |||
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one of us |
The 475 #2NE 3 1/2" has been around since 1907 when it was developed to replace the 450#2 NE when all .450s were outlawed in the Sudan and India. It will push a 500 gr Woodliegh soft or solid at 2150 fps, for 5140 fpe at muzzle. the case is 3 1/2" long, and is quite heavily constructed, and will handel a lot of pressure without causeing a problem with extraction. Factory balistics, however, should be maintained in double rifles. I have two boxes of 20 rounds of these cases from HDS. I use them to make the obsolete 500/450WR#1 Express from them. This is a very effecient round, and Bell makes cases as does Bertram, at around $100 per twenty. I don't find the HDS cases listed in their new website, www.huntingtons.com . Woodliegh makes soft, and solid bullets for the .488 dia. The soft points are $59.98 per 50, and the solids are $79.98 per 50. I would love to have a good double rifle chambered for the 475 #2 NE regulated for the 500 gr bullets. I've never heard of a 470#2NE though, and I have an idea the 475 #2Ne is what is being chambered by Bowen. ------------------ [This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 02-16-2002).] [This message has been edited by MacD37 (edited 02-16-2002).] | |||
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| one of us |
Once more, and then I'll shut up (since nobody seems to have actually read what I posted anyway.) We are talking about two (2) entirely different cartridges here!. Hamilton Bowen chambers Ruger #1 rifles in 475 No. 2 Nitro Express. This is the cartridge Mac is talking about. Hamilton Bowen chambers Ruger M77 Express rifles in a wildcat round based on the 416 Rigby case necked up to .475". Bowen calls this the "470 NE No. 2". | |||
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| one of us |
quote: AHHHHHHH That explains why I have never heard of this round! Does he, or you have pictures of this new cartridge, and if you know what is the case capacity? I'd like to hear more. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Sorry for the confusion, guys. Cannon is 100% correct! I misread the information when I looked at the brochure today. The .475 #2 is listed under the #1 conversions, and does use a .488 bullet. What he calls a .470 NE #2 is in fact a 416 Rigby necked up to .475, so it does take the standard .475" 470 Nitro bullet. I wonder if this is the same as the 475/416 Rigby that Saeed made up on the Dakota action (see the loading data on this website), and where can brass be found for this? I would think the .475 #2 could be very impressive in the #1 given the huge case capacity. Again, bullets availability would be an issue, as well as not being able to rebore to it from a .458 (due to the larger bore size and Ruger's deep screw holes). I am sending my #1 458 to Bowen Monday to rebore to 470 NE. | |||
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| one of us |
Glad to see we're all on the same page now  . To answer your question, Mac, I don't have any additional information on Bowen's 470#2, and I couldn't find anything else on his website. As Ken mentioned, Saeed played with a 475/416 Rigby and posted his results in the reloading section. Also, there's a poster here who goes by the name 470 Mbogo who developted a wildcat by the same name which is also a 475/416 Rigby. He's got a web page with pictures and quite a bit of information and load data at www.470mbogo.com. | |||
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one of us |
If a 470 #2 is a 416 necked up to take a 475 caliber bullet, it would be very similar to the old 475 A&M (a 460Wby necked up to 475). | |||
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| <monty> |
Thanks everyone for shedding some light on this cartridge. Looks to be an interesting cartridge, and I may just have to look into getting one. Thanks a lot, Monty | ||
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| <Pfeifer> |
Wish I would have seen this posting earlier as I had already been around this block last year. Cannon is entirely correct...What Bowen is chambering for on the Ruger M77 express rifles is basically a 470 (.475) on the 416 Rigby case. Last time I talked with him about it - asking about load data, he said that he hadn't actually done any at that time and I believe this conversion came up in a conversation with Cliff LaBounty. The 470 Mbogo is a very nice "improved" (blown out with shoulder moved forward) version of a 475/416 Rigby. Not a simpler 416 conversion like the 450 Rigby. Jeff P | ||
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| One of Us |
Unfortunately, Bowen chose the wrong name for his cartridge. The name implies a rimmed round. He should have just called it a 475 rigby which is what it is. | |||
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