The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 416 RemingtonGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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It is interesting to note that 416 Remington ammo and brass are now readily available. 6 months ago a lot of folks were concerned about the support of this cartridge. Perhaps just a glitch. I went to the Midway website and there are numerous offerings for the ammo and brass is available from Hornady. I bought some brass from Jamison myself about 6 months ago due to these concerns. Federal has a new lower cost Fusion offering and Hornady is offering ammo via Midway for $66.00 /box. Hornady really continues to support the big bore fraternity. There may be better quality ammo out there but their willingness to offer some of these old cartridges at reasonable prices allows all of us a lower cost path to routine enjoyment. EZ | ||
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Hear, hear! Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I agree that Hornady has done all hunters/shooters a remarkable service in bringing back affordable safari/big bore ammo! As to the better quality point, I will say that I have had extremely good performance and have been impressed with both the new DGX and DGS bullets on cape buffalo and elephant. A huge improvement over the old IB ammo. On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died. If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch... Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! - Rudyard Kipling Life grows grim without senseless indulgence. | |||
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Yep. Bought a hundred brass from Graf's a bit ago for $1 a piece shipped. Good stuff. | |||
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I would suspect the reason behind the sudden comeback of the 416 Rem Mag is the continuance of the Mod. 70 be chambered for same plus a little bit of the same from CZ. My beloved 416 Taylor notwithstanding, the 416 Rem Mag must indeed be the best all-around big bore cartridge. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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The .416 Rem was no 30 day wonder, it got off to a slow start, much like the 338 Win then it earned its reputation and a good one it is.. I was a loyal fan of the 404 Jefferys and I still love that old caliber, but the .416 Rem is simply the best of the 40 calibers any way you cut it, short of nostalgia, and hey ain't nothing wrong with nostalgia, so if its not your cup of tea, I understand, but on DG and balistically its the best of the best all things considered IMO.. My all time favorite big bore working gun is a .416 Rem on a Mauser action, 20 inch barrel and Russian walnut stock. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Mr. Atikinson I do think you hit that nail smack on the head! I been using a .416 Rem. for sometime and it is my go to rifle for big game simply put. Love the .338 too but the main gun is the .416 Rem mag. I started off sometime ago wanting a .416-Hoffman but George Hoffman himself, convinced to to go the Remington route, very knowledgeable man he was for sure. I am making that .470-Capstick for a conversation piece and to sit downstairs in the library of .470- Capstick and Peter's books behind glass and bars locked up. | |||
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I am on the same pages as a lot of you. Not to stray off the topic, but I cannot think of a better battery to take to Africa than a 338, 416 and a 500 NE; double rifle (For dangerous game and large plains game) EZ | |||
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I've never owned any of the .416's. I do own a .404 Jeff. I'm thinking about selling it buying a new M-70 in .416 Rem and putting a whole bunch of money into my savings account. Not to mention saving some on brass. (OK I just thought it over!) Nahh I like my Jeff to much. | |||
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The .416Rem is the caliber most folks think the .375H&H is. It will do anything and everything a .375H&H will, only it will do it better. Ian Nyschens was a DR man, absolutely against magazine rifles for Elephant, but he believed the .416 was in a "class by itself". Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Thank the Lord. Being a 416 Rem devotee, I was getting a tad nervous... Phil Massaro President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC NRA Life Member B&C Member www.mblammo.com Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261 "Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig." | |||
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Well said. And like eezridr above it would go nicely with a 338 and 500. But if it were down to a choice between the three the 416 is the gun to walk the forest with. Note that the above says "416". I do have two caveats. If I were to get a 'light' 416 I would probably pick up a 416 Ruger Alaskan. It is a beautifully designed cartridge. And even when marketed in a 20" barrel it looks like it keeps up as a ballistic twin with the 416 Rem. The second caveat deals with using the potential of a cartridge and rifle. If I were going to use a long magnum action, (and I do), then I would opt for the 416 Rigby. It would seem to make better use of that extra length by providing an extra 25 grains powder capacity. And if one has an extra 25 grains of capacity, it should be used. The Rigby produces an extra 150-200 fps at similar pressures to the 416 Rem/Ruger. So I would recommend a 350 grainer at 2800fps or a 400 grainer at 2600 fps. (If you like heavy, squishy bullets there is the 450 grain Woodleigh. I'm partial to fast monometals.) For slower/lighter loads to the 'full-potential Rigby' I would expect the 416 Ruger to eventually come into its own. Of course, I would happily hunt with any of the above 416s in an accurate rifle. Matter of fact, I would happily hunt with the 338WM, too. The most important thing of all is sustainable habitat. It's a wonderful feeling walking the forest with a trusted rifle over the shoulder and knowing that 'anything can happen'. One hot, dry kilometer after another, sitting in some shade sipping water, and remembering that anything can happen out in the wild. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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But with a CZ anyway, the Rigby version will hold 3 in the magazine and my 416 Rem will hold 5 down. A good enough reason for me to go Rem. And you can't do that with any off-the-shelf Ruger. The 375 and 416 Rugers are short and fat cases instead of long and skinny. What's so great about that? ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Absolutely nothing wrong with long over short. Short tends to work out to about a pound lighter carry. You get what you are willing to carry. Your point on carrying five rounds is a good one. So the choice is an inch or two flatter first bullet way out there, with 10% more smack, versus extra rounds. The money to build a new magazine would keep me from thinking about extra rounds. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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It is just different strokes for different folks. But there was once when I needed all but that sixth round in a 458 Lott. Poor ol' Alan Shearing and his client both ran out of ammo in their magazines and couldn't stop that buffalo from giving Alan an ass-ectomy. You can keep your 200 ft/s and I'll take more ammo.  Take care. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Deal. We'll take care. Five 456 Lott rounds is a lot of gun. I haven't owned a 458 but have contemplated a build similarly: a. carry a lighter stick (458 AccRel built on Ruger Alaskan), or b. carry a heavier stick (450 Rigby built on CZ), but "b" quickly morphs to 500 AccRel or 500 Mbogo in my musings. A six-shot Lott would be quite some back-up firepower. But as a meat-on-the-table hunter I've just focused on the first shot. And the 416 seems to work. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I happen to have a CZ 550 (458 Lott) that will hold 6 down and one up the spout! A ton of firepower. It shoots straight and functions flawlessly (worked over). A bit of a club though. I have a custom made for me (416 Rem; Win Mod 70) purpose built for a buffalo. That is what I will use in the near future. It loves 370 NF's @ 2520 FPS. | |||
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You guys ever hear of the .404 Barnes Supreme? It is virtally the exact same round as the .416 Remington except it came along at least 30 years sooner, and uses a .411" bullet instead of a .416" one. In fact I use .416 Rem brass very slightly necked down in my .404 Barnes these days (with no other changes or fire-forming required) instead of necking up and fireforming .375 H&H brass like I used to have to do. Now, guys I am not putting a hit on the .416 Rem; rather, I am praising it. I've had a .404 Barnes Supreme for at least 45 years. I wouldn't have kept it if it didn't earn its keep. But, if I was buying the rifle today, it would be in the factory .416 Remington version. Why? Plain and simple; you can buy factory ammo for the Remington but not for the Barnes. While I actually prefer the slightly better sectional density of the bullets in the Barnes version (at least in theory), there's no difference at all in field performance to speak of, so why limit one's self to handloads if it's not necessary? The only added thing I would throw in here regards either, is to recommend you don't build your gun to weigh just over 7 pounds like I did. Not unless you really enjoy getting whacked on your shoulder with a bat, swung hard. With the 400 gr. bullets loaded warmish, either one will attract your immediate attention to the fact that it ain't no .223 Rem in your hands. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Hunters there are simply no flies on a .416-Remington caliber rifle in the model 70 Winchester. | |||
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Don't disagree with your comment, but my recollection is that Nyschens was referring to the Rigby, no? | |||
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 Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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He was most likely speaking to the Rigby, although he did not specify which ".416". It is a specious issue, however, since both the .416Remington and the .416Rigby have virtually identical performance curves. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Yes and no. The 416Rigby's ballistics in memoirs need to be compared to hypothetical memoirs of a 300 WM loaded down to 30-06 levels. Imagine a 100-year-old 300 HH that made its fame at 30-06 levels, during a time when a 30-06 didn't exist. 30-06 levels are great ballistics, but such a hypothetical 300HH would be undervalued. Handloaders, on the other hand, now have bullets that can take practical advantage of higher velocities. With the advent of the 416Weatherby we now find out that the 416Rigby, too, is a bigger gun than its history. Instead of a 400 grain roundnose softpoint at 2400fps, imagine hunting with an expanding, monolithic copper boattail, .444 BC and 350 grains, travelling at 2800fps. So yes, the Rigby was in a class by itself. And then the Remmie was designed to match the 'old' Rigby. So now the old-ballistics Rigby and Remmie are in a class by themselves, and the 'new-ballistics' Rigby is a level up from that. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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FYI- I have 220 rounds of 416 Rem Mag brass for sale in the classifieds. By the way, I could not find any available at Midway. zzz | |||
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The .416 Remington is a great cartridge and if I still had one, I wouldn't sell it. I have the Rigby mostly because of what Ray says, nostalgia. If I was looking for a new .416, it would be the Ruger simply because I prefer the beltless case. Just my two cents. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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My question is, to what extent will the resurgence of the Rigby and the introduction of the Ruger reduce demand for the Remington cartridge. The Ruger really needs some premium and semi premium bullets in factory ammunition. | |||
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If Winchester would dress up their Mod 70 Safari offering a bit with a drop box magazine and stock to match. I think it would do wonders to enhance sales. They could probably sell it for an extra sum. Add the Lott offering along with the 458WM, 375 H&H and 416 Rem and they just might take over the entry level big bore market. 4 Down and those classic drop belly lines, ebony forend cap like the supergrade. If executed properly, It would just make for a very nice "traditional" safari rifle. EZ | |||
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As mentioned above, I just bought some Hornady brass from Grafs so it appears they are now finally producing it in sufficient volume to get it to market. | |||
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We'll have to wait and see how the market develops in the next ten years. Yes, the Ruger could benefit from preminum factory loads. Not so the Rigby, 'cuz the factories load them to 1911 era levels and conceptions. The Ruger is the new item and it should do very well for anyone who wants to carry a lighter rifle. The Rigby will do well for anyone interested in maximum ballistics for a calibre. The Remmie will do well for anyone wanting 'long skinny' bullets. The last is somewhat new for me to consider. For example, a person could put more 338-06 into a rifle magazine than 338WM. Should one give up the capability of the 338WM in order to put more 338-06 into the magazine? Same thing at 300WM versus the 30-06 or 308, or the 7mmRM and the 270 or 280. Anyway, I'd like to try out the 416Ruger, but I already have the Rigby and don't want to give up the extra kthwump. (On the above, yes, I tend to choose the magnum over the 'standard' round, 'cepting the 270. If it's just distance for deer-size or smaller, my wife goes with the 270 and light bullets.) I wish all the 416s a great decade. As they say about the Lott (it's everything the WM was intended to be), the 416s are everything that is claimed for the 375. YOu can say that again.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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As much as I love the .375 H&H, the .416 Rem has it all over the .375 in every respect unless the recoil is objectionable, and that may well be the case with some. A 300 gr. or 350 gr. .416 bullet whizzing along at 2700 to 2900 FPS makes the .416 a real long distance shooter and it would take a lot of wind to move that big bullet. The 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS is the standard by which big bores are judged by, not to mention the 450 gr. Woodleighs at 2400 FPS and that argueably just jacked the 416 up to the .458 (with a good handload standards)..All around caliber? Yes, it's in the running for sure. Does this remove the .375 from its throne, I don't see why it should, the .375 still has its calling and its proven itself for a couple of hundred years. I also agree the 416 Ruger and the 375 Ruger are the berries. If I didn't have so much ammo stored up for the .375 H&H and 416 Rem, I would go with the Ruger case, its a jim dandy. I do have the new Ruger Hawkeye AFRICAN, and its a different Ruger than the rest. The did it right this time, they cut off all the extra unneeded wood, slimed it up with a barrel band swivel, barrel band sight, island rear sight with a shallow V and the stock works well with irons and with a scope..Mine is a .338 Win. and IMO its the best factory rifle produced since the pre 64 Win. and (shutter) may best that one. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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