Would it be worth rechambering a WINCHESTER MODEL 70 SARARI express in 375HH to 375 WEATHERBY what advantages would there be,would the advantages be drastic also after hereing that winchester will be making guns overseas (browning bought winchester) and the model 70 will be no looker made would it hurt the value of the gun.

Well the 375Wby holds about 7grs more powder. So that is 7% divide that by 4 and you would expect about a 1.8% velocity increase (46.8FPS) at the same pressure. The Wby is loaded to 63825 the H&H to 62,000. If it were my rifle I would leave it alone and load to the higher pressure if I really needed a couple more FPS.

What ramrod340 said--

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Well the 375Wby holds about 7grs more powder. So that is 7% divide that by 4 and you would expect about a 1.8% velocity increase (46.8FPS) at the same pressure. The Wby is loaded to 63825 the H&H to 62,000. If it were my rifle I would leave it alone and load to the higher pressure if I really needed a couple more FPS.

FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS FIGURE.

quote:

FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS FIGURE.

Curious how I'm to take that?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS FIGURE.

Curious how I'm to take that?

RIP is of the opinion that the .375 Weatherby is substantially more cartridge than the .375 H&H.....that's it's nearly equivalent to the .375 RUM. All I know is that back many years ago prior to them bringing out the .378 there wasn't enough velocity gain to talk about and for that reason the H&H didn't loose any customers to Weatherby.

My attitude is that the old H&H is totally adequate for the job and so why would one decide to expose himself to greater recoil to accomplish the same thing.....a dead buff!!!!!

Further, the old H&H isn't a slow runner....it's ability to shoot long didtances is well known.....again...why are we wanting more?

quote:

(browning bought winchester)

That happened ten years ago...get with the times!!! Nothing is changing at Winchester that will affect the value of your gun any more than if no changes were in the works. Don't speculate mon their value as that's all it is...pure speculation.....go with what ever seems to be the right thing today.....and to me it's leave that gun in the H&H chambering...it's all you (or I) need.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

FIGURES DON'T LIE, BUT LIARS FIGURE.

Curious how I'm to take that?

Please excuse my barking at the moon.

Based purely on exterior volume, the .375 Weatherby is only 8 grains of water bigger than the .375 H&H.

However the Norma .375 WBY headstamped brass adds 3 grains of volume internally over and above that, compared to WW brass for the .375 H&H.

So we get about an 11 grain water gain with the proper headstamped brass.

AND, the "new" .375 WBY throat (2001) with only .3700" run of parallel-sided, tight freebore allows some pressure relief and no accuracy loss.

So in a 26" barrel it is easy to get 2800 fps with 300 grain Nosler, with the .375 WBY.

It is hard to get a .375 H&H up to 2600 fps in a 26" barrel.

You can shoot your .375 Weatherby slower and have lower pressures than in a .375 H&H at same velocity.

Reprobate thinking about the .375 Weatherby is based on a circa 1949 throat with about 3/4" of sloppy freebore.

Just howling at the moon, excuse please.

And you talk about my small amount of figuring. I agree that Norma brass will normally give 3-4 grs more water capacity. Adding that vol, a 26" barrel and loading to 63,825 like the Wby Loadtech gives numerous loads for the H&H above 2700 with a 300 several over 2750. I have no experience with that pressure, 26" or 300grs so I only quote what the program says.

If you feel the Wby is better by all means go for it. It was my opinion (last I checked my opinion & a couple$$ would buy a cup of coffee) that I wouldn't mess with it.

Everyone has their own opinion that is why they both exist.

Loadtech Program??? ... No experience??? ... Does Loadtech allow any throat inputs???

You can also fire .375 H&H ammo in the .375 Weatherby and only lose 100 to 150 fps and have the bullets impact only 2 or three inches lower at 100 yards.

A 2530 fps (24" barrel velocity) .375/300gr .375 H&H factory load (pretty hot and high pressure at that in a .375 H&H rifle) ... fired in the NEW .375 Weatherby chambered rifle with 24" barrel ... becomes a 2400 fps "super killer."

The 300 grain Nosler in the .375 Weatherby Factory load gives over 2740 fps in a 24" barrel.

That little bit of extra .375 Weatherby throat in a 3.8" boxed rifle allows even more "improvement."

Seems like a N0-LOSE option to me.

How much velocity would the Ultrammag offer over the standard H&H in a 24 in barrel shooting 300 grainers?

I'm not into figures like RIP, but my 375Wby has a 24" barrel and gives 2725-2750fps with 300gr bullets. My old 375H&H has a 25" barrel and I've never had a 300gr load make over 2500fps...and I've tried every powder I can cram into the case. I've owned three other H&Hs and none would do any better than 2550fps.
I guess because after owning four different 375 H&Hs with "slow" barrels I went for the Wby version and love it. There is absolutely no downside to having the conversion performed on your rifle. It will still shoot H&H ammo if necessary, and the extra velocity never hurts, IMO. Especially if you're using TSXs or other bonded type bullets.

I've posted and hunted about and with the 375 H&H. ARgualby it's "the" single most versatile cartridge ever created. In my modest hunting experience, velocity is definetly an asset, all things being equal of course and a 200 fps increase in my view falls into the realm of "substantial." jorge

quote:

Does Loadtech allow any throat inputs

Nope. The data I ran was only H&H adding 3 grs of capacity for norma brass. I'll take your word for the WBY data. Like I said the H&H was calculated not experience.

I have done a lot of actual case volume increase to velocity testing and all things equal the old rule of 4 to 1 for powder increase to velocity holds. When you get to magnum cases it is normally less. If you are getting a 7.7% velocity increase for only a 11% powder increase at equal pressures then that's great.

My experience has been that re-chambering CAN net you an easy 150-200 fps . It may be that the Weatherby case functions better at warm pressures than the old H&H , or it may be that the larger case holds just enough of the slower powders to get a good increase , but the difference in my rifle was like night and day .

Do any of you have any good loads for the 375 weatherby? I would want to shoot the 300 tsx.

I have a 375 Weatherby made on a Brno 602 per RIP's reamer specs. It is definitekly worth it. I can now shoot the 375 with 300 grainers and the same trajectory as my 30-06. It handles H&H with zero problems. Feeding is great. I don´t know about the presure difference in PSI that you posted but I can tell you that when it was a H&H I got sticky extraction around 2600 with most loads and with the right powder the Weath will go 2700 without breaking a sweat and 2800 as easy as the H&H will do 2600. The numbers can say whatever they want but this is the way it is. Plus you have the confidence that you will never be scrounging ammo or brass. 375 H&H is to be found everywhere. Just my opinion.

The Weatherby uses 4350 powder. The H&H uses RL-15.

The Weatherby is to the H&H what the 30-06 is to the .308 Win.

I'm not very surprised that the actual experiences with the .375 Wby don't match calculated outcomes.

Why? Because any computer calculated outcome is just a really quick application of someone's pre-programmed assumptions about relationships between variables.

If those assumptions are even occasionally imperfect, or not all the applicable variables are included, in the correct relationship(s) to each other, then the results will not be accurate except by lucky happenstance.

When they say GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) they are speaking as much about the software's formulae assumptions as the data.

I think the .375Wby is a great classic cartridge of the 50's. Go for it, if it turns your crank.

I am of the "moderate velocity and heavy bullet" school of thought and think the .375 could benefit from 150 FEWER fps rather than more. I would keep that rifle AS IS!

JMHO,

John

My 375wby shows 2770 with factory 300grains bullets thru the cronograph,that is with a 24 inch tube. Thanks RIP, you are partly the reason I got the rifle rechambered, BTW long range 300-500 yards is much easier with the new chamber, also I perfer 5100 foot pounds to 4200 of the old H&H. With this coversion you only gain speed power and distance, you loose nothing ,because you can still shoot 375H&H in the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
I am of the "moderate velocity and heavy bullet" school of thought and think the .375 could benefit from 150 FEWER fps rather than more. I would keep that rifle AS IS!

JMHO,

John

JTG,
You are in luck.
The .375 Wby will shoot the 350 grainers at the same velocity as the .375 H&H does with 300 grainers.

To slow the .375 Weatherby down to .375 H&H speed just use the heavier 350 grain bullet.

If that is still too fast for you, then load the 350 grainer in .375 H&H brass and fire it in the .375 WBY chamber. Still too fast? Then add less powder.

I'll bet you can get it slowed down to 2100 fps or thereabouts.

Seriously:

A lot of us do not think like John The Greek, on many issues.

There are a lot of HAPPY CAMPERS in the .375 WEATHERBY CAMP.

RIP......

Curious to know....... does the new .3700" freebore figure still retain the 1 degree, 2 minute leade or is that changed?? I am currently having a Stainless Stalker (yeah, I know.....) rechambered and want to have the right freebore cut.

quote:

Originally posted by Strut10:
RIP......

Curious to know....... does the new .3700" freebore figure still retain the 1 degree, 2 minute leade or is that changed?? I am currently having a Stainless Stalker (yeah, I know.....) rechambered and want to have the right freebore cut.

Yep, you got it, the Magic Throat:

.3700" of parallel-sided freebore of .3755" diameter (tight) and a leade angle of 1 degree and 2 minutes.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
JTG,
You are in luck.
The .375 Wby will shoot the 350 grainers at the same velocity as the .375 H&H does with 300 grainers.

To slow the .375 Weatherby down to .375 H&H speed just use the heavier 350 grain bullet.

If that is still too fast for you, then load the 350 grainer in .375 H&H brass and fire it in the .375 WBY chamber. Still too fast? Then add less powder.

All of the above is to no end...except to satisfy your peculiar desire to tinker with stuff. No animal will not be made "more dead" by that which is offered by the Weatherby chambering and that's a fact. If I wan't heavier bullets, I will shoot a .416 ... and not in some goofy chambering either.

Best,

John

HOLD THE PHONE BOYS,
Count me in on the 375 Weatherby fan club. I'm just in the process of building one because my last one on a 602 action was turned in a 470 Mbogo. I missed the cartridge for hunting up North so I'm turning my 338 Win on a model 70 action into a 375 Weatherby. It will have a Pac Nor super match grade chrome moly barrel set in an H-S Precision stock fitted with either the new super soft or the F990 Pachmyer pad. My stock should be here in a week or so and then I just have to out wait the gunsmith.
Take good care,
Dave

I am a 375 H&H fan, and the extra velocity of other case designs are really not necessary. I don't feel that anyone is ever undergunned for anything that is proper target for the standard 375 H&H just more trouble and expense than is needed.

I doubt any of us who like the 375WBY feel it's performance is "necessary" for use on whatever game a 375cal rifle is to be used on, at least I don't. But that doesn't mean it isn't useful for certain occasions or applications.
I just do not understand this "sacred cow" mentality about certain cartridges. Statements like "It's perfect as is" or "Can't be improved upon" or others to that effect just don't hold water. In regard to cartridges, none of them are perfect and none of them could not be improved upon to some degree or another, IMO. That's what makes shooting and guns fun! If you like a 375H&H or a 30/06 as is, fine by me. But to say an improved version offers no benefit, is not worth the bother or whatever just because what it offers isn't of any value to you...to others it might offer a decided advantage that they find useful.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:

... All of the above is to no end...except to satisfy your peculiar desire to tinker with stuff ...

Best,

John

It is quite an honor to be considered "peculiar" by JOHN THE PINK.

The .375 Weatherby Camp thanks you, John.

Please Dr. Ron....enlighten us! How dead must a PG animal be before it is TRULY dead? Does the extra velocity really have anything to offer on game that couldn't be authoritatively killed with a 180 grain 30-06? NO! Also, please explain why I am suddenly "pink"? Is it because you are insecure and must imply that anyone with whom you disagree is lacking masculinity or is this a double edged ad hominem attack on my politics as well? What does the extra few FPS from the Weatherby provide to you that is lacking in your own mind? Just curious.



frankly, this is a silly AR so I am done here. Shoot what you want I guess but don't go telling people seeking friendly advice that the extra velocity "can't hurt" because the practical reality is that it can on game that you actually NEED a .375 for.

Moderate Velocity + Heavy Bullet = DEAD CRITTER

Hyper Velocity + Heavy Bullet = ERRATIC PERFORMANCE


Best,

John

Quote]All of the above is to no end...except to satisfy your peculiar desire to tinker with stuff. If I wan't heavier bullets, I will shoot a .416 ... and not in some goofy chambering either.[Quote



Amazing to me how many folks see their own opinions as "THE" final truth, and based on their self-appointed roles as arbiters of the correct and good, deride anything other folks might like to do/try/use.

I suspect either .375 will perform well using appropriate quality bullets, and handled with skill by the shooter. I doubt that either is judstifiably damnable. One may shoot a little tiny bit flatter than the other, and with proper quality bullets may penetrate a bit farther. Both will likely tickle the fancy of their afficianados. Most of all, I doubt that it will matter much in the end what their most enthusiastic proponents say by way of insulting each other.

For me, it's fun to experiment. I recommend trying new things to folks who have the time, money, and bent.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I suspect either .375 will perform well using appropriate quality bullets...Most of all, I doubt that it will matter much in the end...

OK, one last comment...you make my point, Canuck. Maybe I am just too pragmatic but re-chambering a rifle to gain very little or perhaps even put yourself at a disadvantage where a .375 is actually NEEDED seems just silly. I was not trying to be insulting but was simply stating the fact that Ron likes to tinker with bullets and rifles and calibres. That's his bais and that's fine but the ultimate goal here is to hunt and kill stuff right? Can the Weatherby round do that better? I doubt it under most circumstances and deny it's ability to do AS WELL as the H&H under some circumstances.

JMHO (yes, my HUMBLE opinion),

John

and thus, using your analogy: the 300 Wea does not offer an advantage over the 300 win. mag. and the 300 win. mag. does not offer an advantage over the 30-06...yet we know that does not hold true. There is an advantage to the extra fps.

Flipping that around, the 375 Wea. has the same advantage that the 300 win mag has over the 30-06 - about 200 fps using heavy bullets. I'd rather shoot an elk with the 300 win. mag. for the added benefits it provides.

Cheers,
CL

JtG-
May I ask why you believe adding 200fps actually hurts the performance on "game for which a 375 is needed"? How much field experience with both do you have?
I ask this because I've got a fair amount with both, on game from cape buffalo to gazelle , and it does not agree at all with what you are stating here.

So what about this story of the H&H brass streching too much for reloaders, and a change to Weatherby fixes that?

Since I've had my latest 375Wby I have used nothing but 375Wby brass. In years gone by I fireformed WW brass and it didn't seem to stretch any more than typical H&H brass did.

Um yes but I meant the shape of the H&H compared to the shape of the Weatherbys, re less trimming for reloaders.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
OK, one last comment...you make my point,Canuck...

I said this and I truly meant it! If you guys want to sit around extending valid arguments ad absurdum ("Well, a 22 hornet is that much faster than a 22LR and we know how much better it is on squirrels") or argue outside the context of the discussion ("But I would rather have this round for elk" when we are talking about a DGR) or play the "I've shot this much stuff, what have you shot" game in order to make yourselves feel better about a goofy chambering then, by all means, knock yourselves out! I won't be participating.

Best Regards,

John

I really like the idea of tweaking cartridges. Like why a .505 Gibbs when there are so many more bullets to shoot in .510 diameter?

Use the .505 brass opened to .510 and enjoy all the "options". Though, it's kind of like going back in time if you DO use a true .505... so cool...