I'm starting to prepare suitable loads for my Buffalo hunt later this year and the 400gr Speer Africa Grand Slam Solid may be just the ticket in my .416 Rigby.







Does anyone have any first hand experience of how they perform on old Mbogo? I realise they are expensive but compared to the cost of this trip, and for that matter my gun, it's small change. Any information very gratefully received.

Don't know about buff, but used them on a few elephants.

One of the few solids I have used that haven't deformed. Don't know whether they are worth the money but will continue to use them.

Good luck on your hunt.

You may have to sell the gun to buy the bullets! I haven't used them but doubt you need them. I've used Barnes homogeneous solids as well as Woodleighs and Trophy Bonded Sledgehammers on buffalo. All worked well. The Woodleighs deformed slightly and the Sledgehammers aren't available to reloaders. But with todays premium softs(Trophy Bonded Bear Claws, Swift A-Frames, Barnes-X's, etc.)I doubt whether you even need solids for buffalo. I've shot buffalo front to back and back to front with Bear Claws. I have buddies who've done the same with X Bullets. BTW I recently bought some of the new Hornady solids and had a friend mill one in half. The jacket was .130"(1/8") thick! This could be an interesting bullet.
Geronimo

The tungsten cored solid made a short bullet that would not crowd case capacity like a regular monometal solid. The is not a particular advatage in your Rigby as there is lots of case capacity even with the long-for-weight solids. In that regard the extra money is wasted. If you had a 416 Remington or especially a Taylor the difference might matter.

G,

You're right. The Hornady's are only about a 1/10 of an inch longer than the Speer's and should work well, though I haven't hunted with them. The latest productions Hornady 416's have their nose sort of flattened which should make them even better. My son used them on buff but what judgment can be made on solids that zing thru on broadside shots?

I think that the speer african gran slam was made to get the 458 win mag more speed and thereby better penetration.
The 416 rigby has never had that problem. But try it anyway.

Cheers,

Andr�

The only reason you really need a tungsten carbide core is for penetrating metal.I wonder if Speer made an armour peircing bullet for the public and called it a big game solid.
Seriously they evidently meet the claims of a short dense and tough bullet for hunting.

Karl.

I was thinking that maybe the tungsten core helped the bullet from deforming in some way? Also the flat point seems like a good idea although I have to say I just really like the look of them

They are horribly expensive. Yesterday I was quoted �125 for 25 - that's about $220 in funny money

I've got some Barnes solids on order but I'm not about the Hornadys. They look too much like old-style solids that have a reputation for failure.

Spie,

Try the NorthFork solids and softs. My rifle shot the solids into one hole and the softs about an inch higher into under an inch. They are 370 grain bullets but should easily do the trick on buffalo. In fact, I will be using them on a buffalo hunt this August in Zim.

Tim

I bought some last summer and had them loaded for my .375. I was going to pair them with some Federal Premium TBBCs for a buffalo hunt. Considering that I wanted to practice with the same bullets I planned to use in the field, I found that the cost of loading, and subsequently adjusting the load of the African Grand Slams so that they would shoot the same as the Federal soft points I had chosen, to be too expensive after I noticed that my Speers were shooting 3-4 inches higher at 100 yards than my Federals. I then decided to simply buy Federal TB solids to match with my Federal TBBCs and everything danced together perfectly from then on.

And as a follow-up after my hunt, the Federal TB solids performed flawlessly.

HI,

GERONOMO,with the Barns X in 416 would the 350 grain weight work as well, I would think the 400 X is the way to go,but the 350 makes a better over-all round for everything. I just wonder if it would still penetrate enough,Kev

I think you will be well satisfied with the Trophy Bonded Sledgehammers(solids). IMHO they are the best cored solid bullet for the money. I asked the Federal and Speer reps at the SCI convention two years ago why they weren't available to the reloading public. Neither had an answer.

I know the n\machinist that developed these bullets, prior to speet buying the line. For what it's worth, I think he got screwed on the deal.

The folks that said "tungsten.. shorter" is exactly correct. The intention of these bullets, the first one, in fact, was to have a 500gr 458 that could get better velocity due to shorter length/more case.

If you have no case capacity issue, the woodleigh bullet has no disadvanges to this bullet.

the cost is due to the SOLID tungsten core, rather than a compressed powered tungsten, requiring individual machining, and then the jacket requires a huge level of accuaracy. As I understand it, there is a higher reject rate on this bullets during manufactoring than any other bullet in the speer line. These rejects can be reduced to raw materials, and is sold to scrap metal dealers for this. They won't be sold as grade b's or anything like that, as the reject generally is out of ballance, concentricly... in otherwords, has a built in yaw.

accuracy is excellent with this, partially due to twist/shorter length, and a high inspection level

Myself, I would NOT bother with these, in a reasonable cartridge.. and the rigby has the luxury of even barnes solids

jeffe

I don't have any experience with the 350gr. slug. I just feel that .416's overall performance is better with 400gr. bullets. In Africa it's all about hitting with the biggest, heaviest bullet that a particular caliber can handle efficiently. IMO when you load a .416 with a 350gr. bullet, you aren't getting all your money's worth. I've killed everything from Impala to Elephant with 400gr. bullets in a .416 Rigby. They are all still dead.

Just my little 2 cents worth
Geronimo

Have not the African Grand Slams been discontinued?

AD

Allen,

The Speer web site shows them availible.

Midway has them for sale at $132.49 per box.

-Steve

They probably will be soon, at those prices.

Spie - I�ll jump in since the .416 is my favorite caliber. I have owned .416s in Remington, Dakota, and Rigby. But, I still own my Dakota and Rigby.



Anyhow, as several have stated, the AGS is a wonderful bullet where penetration is paramount. However, you are shooting a Rigby at buff and a pass though is a guarantee with solids. I only shoot 410gr Woodleigh Weldcores in my 416s. They mushroom well and I can generally get broadside pass through on buff. The internal damage is certainly impressive.



In short - You may have too much bullet for the application at hand. The last thing you want to do is to start shooting buff within the herd using solids. I would suggest that you give the Weldcore careful consideration.

Karl knows of what he speaks on this one! The Speer tungsten solids will definitely poke holes in metal. I shot then through a 305 Chevy V8's crankshaft main bearing journals! Actually, they only penetrated in about 1/2" and then the journal appears to have fractured allowing complete pass through of the bullet. Shooting the engine block didn't even slow these bullets down!

I really think they would make a piss poor buffalo bullet as they would simply punch itty bitty (from the buffalo's perspective) 0.416 diameter holes in the buffalo. This won't mean much unless it is a CNS hit. I think you would be better off using a premium soft point for your buffalo, as some of the others have suggested.

Load was Norma brass, Fed 215 primer, 400 gr Speer tungsten solid bullets, and 108 grains of IMR4350. Chronographed muzzle velocity was 2742 fps on average.

ZD,

First you want softs so as to not pass thru, and then you said the softs generally will. Huh?

Just ragging you. I do not believe in solids on buff unless you are going to brain them. All this BS about solids on buff is just that.

Hell I wouldn't waste a perfectly good solid braining a buffalo, it isn't necessary in the least!

I have seen a lot of softs go to pieces with head shots on Buffalo....and they were premiums too...

I don't see any advantage to Speers bullet, but it is a good bullet I'm sure...A good Woodleigh or Barnes solid is just as good except in the 458 where powder capacity is an issue there the short Speer solid shines...

You won't have any trouble loading any solid in a 416 Remington or Rigby...I shoot the 416 Remington in a Mauser rifle.

Fortunately I have a supply of the now defunct Bridger flat nose solids and also some of the GS flat nose solids in most of my big bore cartridges and I wouldn't use anything else after using them more than a few times..They work better than any other bullet out there, soft or solid IMO.....

As to a soft, the new 400 gr. Nolser is the best Buffalo bullet I have ever used in a soft point bullet..It is tougher than any other soft and penitrates like a solid, doing a masive amount of damage...I shot a number of buffalo with them last year and the year before and I am down right impressed...It will blow the small amount of lead out, peal back just a little and it in effect becomes a 45 caliber flat nose solid. I have a few of them that I recovered from lengthwise shots and they look great. I'll never admit it but they may be as good as a solid, maybe!

Scott,
How many is several? How many buff have you seen shot? How many have you shot yourself? With all the personas you have had, I have forgotten.

I have used them on elephant, and they performed just as well as any of the solids I have used. Like Barnes and Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammers. They all went completely through on side brain shot elephants.



In our penetration tests here on a 1" steel plate, the Speer GS were the only one that went through.



I think they will work very well on buffalo.







You can see the small hole the tungsten insert made in this plate.



It was shot at 100 yards.

As I said a good bullet but all that money just to get the above advantage Saeed demonstrated - metal plate penetration.

If the commies or terrorists start rolling over the hill in APC's I'll be buying them, but until then woodleighs etc. will do.

Karl.

Will - You got me. Where I was headed with the statement is - you are assured that the AGS will pass through a buff just about any angle you shoot. With a Weldcore, you �may� get pass through on broadside shots. You stand a far better chance of stopping a Weldcore inside the first buff you shoot and not the 3rd one behind the first one you shoot as in the case of the AGS. Buff are expensive these days.



BTW - I am totally bummed today - I was supposed to be out busting water buff in Brazil right now. Instead I am having to work. Got to head back to the States this week to try out my English for a few weeks. The good news is I believe I have worked out the kinks to bring my .416 Dakota back down to tackle the huge population of water buff in this country. Massive guys with no one shooting them. The trophy fee is great as well - all the buff you want to shoot for free.

Sorry bud, I am not Scott. You shot any buffalo? Shot anything bigger than a 416 Rigby? How much big game hunting experience have you got?

Zero, how can I get in on THAT shoot 'em up!?

AD

Allen - The opportunities here to shoot massive, old water buff abound. From several pictures that I have seen, a few of these monsters are larger in body mass than the largest Cape Buff. The horns are not quite as impressive but I have seen a few which will raise your hair.

Here is the rub - importing guns into Brazil is simply and decisively impossible. Furthermore, you cannot own a rifle caliber larger than .308. If you are lucky enough to obtain a collector�s license then you can �collect� big bores. However, there is no big bore ammunition available here and loading components are non-existent.

The good news is, everyone is scared to death of the big buff here. Few are shot each year, there is no predation, and there are thousands of square miles of swamp habitat for them to thrive. In short, monster buff abound.

I am working a political angle which will allow me to bring a suitable weapon in country. I will be headed back down in a few weeks to take a test drive on the buff. If everything works out, I will have all the buff practice I want and the landowners will be covered up in meat. I�ll keep you posted...

Well, if you're not Scott, then sorry. You certainly sound/post like him.

Nope, no buff yet. Yes I've shot bigger, in fact today I was shooting my .600 Overkill. Look for the post with pics very soon. What do you call big game? Eland on down? Black bear, deer? Bear in Maine, deer in Pa., been to Namibia once, am going back this summer.

There, I've answered your questions, if you don't mind, answer mine.

Apology accepted. Cool pics on that 600 of yours! I hav nowhere near the hunting experience you have. I am a paper hunter, just don't have the heart to kill a poor defensless animal (that doesn't mean I won't eat them though). I know several big game hunters though, and was relating to their experiences.