It's probably an oxy moron, but I really like the 505 Gibbs cartridge, and can't afford $2500 for one. Is there some cost effective way to build one? I talked to pac-nor, and on a Ruger NO.1 they would open up the action and extractor work for $100, and the chambered barrel is a great deal. BUT, do you think the ruger is too light?
For bolt actions it seems most of the cost goes into feeding and opening up the action. Would it be possible to make a single shot bolt action, and just open the bolt face, or is there more to it?
Please excuse my ignorance. I know the A-Square is the most cost effective, but I'm stubborn and really like the Gibbs.

Given your handle of 300 H&H it sounds like you are a bit of a traditionalist and if so, I think you would better with the Ruger in 500 Nitro but the 505 would be fine.

Without a muzzle brake any of the 50s, 500 Jeffrey, 505, 500 Nitro will just about break your neck if you loaded them up to the full potential of the case. I think teh Ruger will be heavy enough as a small amount of lead added would bring it up to the same weight as a bolt action with the same barrel profile.

A 470 Nitro would be nice on a Ruger 1 and you have good Norma or Federal cases and lots of new bullets because of the 480 pistol caliber. I think the Hornady and Speer bullets weigh up to about 400 grains.

Mike

Probably the most expedient and cost effective route in a bolt gun would be to rebarrel a Brno ZKK-602 or CZ-550.

Mike you are probably right about the Nitro Express Calibers. The 500 Nitro is probably more power than I would ever need. That said I still like the Gibbs, but maybe by all practical standards the NE would make sense. I am just looking for a new big bore, and am not going to Africa anytime soon. If I could afford a trip there I suppose I wouldn't worry about $2,500 for a repeater.
Thanks for the reply.
300H&H

fla, I had that re-barreling idea in mind, but Bowen wants $1,400 for conversion from the Ruger, and I'm not sure he would do the CZ. I guess that I got the idea from Saeed's single shot 700 Nitro. It would be a bear to get one of those to feed from a mag. The CZ would have plenty of weight, just not the ability of a repeater. I don't mind the idea of feeding it one at a time when it's not a DGR. My goal is a bolt action 505 for $1,100. Thanks for your reply,
300H&H.

300H&H,

What about doing a simple rebarrel on a CZ and using it single shot.

Then as funds became available, have done the work necessary to make it a repeater.

You could think of it as a project that you can shoot along the way.

Mike

Approx 8 yrs back I saw a 505 Gibbs No. 1 in Hallowells in CT. It had a hydro-coil stock but other than that looked like a plain No. 1. The work was done by a gunsmith whose first name was Brian, but I can't remember his last name. A No. 1 is safe in 505 if you don't exceed factory 505 loads.

Would the cz route work out cheaper than the Ruger-1 route??.

I have not seen a .505 Gibbs case in the flesh but I have heard it is a very impressive looking round.

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300H&H: Why wouldn't the Brno or CZ work as a repeater? I believe there is plenty of space in the magazine for a 505. All you would need is a new barrel and possibly some work on the rails and ramp. You can buy a used ZKK for $500 (there was one for $500 on auctionarms two weeks ago). I'm pretty sure you could get another barrel installed and any other work done for another $600, unless there's more to it than I think.

I know a guy who built a 500 jeffery on a Ruger No. 1 and the stock cracked 2nd shot. That, and the recoil is vicious.

A 505 gibbs should weigh 11-12 pounds.

I don't know the specifics of fitting it for a repeater, but I saw that bowen charges about 1400 for all work they do. It seems to me if I just got it rebarreled/chambered, and opened the bolt face on a 416 Rigby it would be cheap single shot like Mike said. Initially that's what I had in mind. It might be a little more than the NO.1, but it is a good start to finish it off later on.
Does anybody know if that will work? Pac-Nor will put the barrel on, then just open the bolt face and probably a new extractor??

I checked out Brownells for CZ-550 actions. They want $618 just for the rigby-sized action. I could get a new CZ complete with stock and irons for that. I hate the looks of that stock, but maybe it feels better than it looks, which would be fine with me. If I turn it into a 505 I can probably kiss that stock good bye after a half-dozen shots though.
As for weight, my 416 Rigby no.1 weighs about 10 pounds, so adding some weight in the stock to the Gibbs version could bring it to 11lbs at least. I still like the bolt action idea better in the long run, but still not sure about how much work to make a single shot bolt action though.
300H&H

You're probably looking at $400-500 for the barrel, chambering and opening up the bolt. If you started with a 416 Rigby CZ, you'll also likely have some stock work done to fit the larger dia barrel, and you really, really need to have a second recoil lug fit to the barrel, and bedded into the stock. Have you considered how you are going to sight the rifle? Iron sights can add a considerable cost to the work, and there is also the cost of bluing. I'd expect you're looking @ ~$1500 for a single shot 505 Gibbs on the CZ-550. I'd think a Ruger #1 would set you back about the same, and if you're going 50 cal on the #1, it's just got to be a 500 NE, wouldn't be proper otherwise

There is a Ruger M77 505 Gibbs at Great Northern Guns in Anchorage, they had 5 made, and last time I was there, one was still on the rack. It is tagged $2500, but it has the integral 1/4 rib, and barrel bands, and is a repeater.

300H&H,

To add to Pauls post, if you could send the CZ action to Australia, I would guess opening the bolt face and fitting a chambered barrel would cost around $300US.

However, that would not be a match grade barrel as I know out 2 match grade barrel makers do not do .505 caliber. It would be a cut rifle barrel that is OK. In other words the barrel is one that I would be happy to use with a 458 and up but I would not choose one for super accurate benchrest 270.

Custom gun work from the very basic through to a H&H look alike is about the only area of guns where we are better off than Americans.

Also, you could have the gunsmith buy you a CZ in Australia and then send you back the completed product. I think he would need to send it to one of your gun dealers.

Another significant cost factor with the 505 will be dies and cases.

But however you go about it, it would seem that given your desire for a bolt action 505, that getting a CZ will be the starting point, irrespective of what follows.

If the stock is not big enough fora 505 barrel, I don't think it would cost all that much out here to cut the forend off and fit a wider one and I also think the job would look OK. At least good enough to get you to go bang.

To go to making it a repeater I don't think that would cost all that much. Perhaps $100US to $150 US tops.

The other one you might want to consider is the 500 Jeffey on Mauser 98. You could do that very cheaply from Australia with the vertical stack magazine.

I would guess you get a barreled action that would go bang and repeat very reliably for perhaps $600US.

If you wanted a cleaned up M98 and rib sights etc a barreled action in 500 Jeffrey would be about $900 US.

Mike

Mike 375 would you post about the .500 Jeff and the single stack mag options on the .500 Jeff thread down a few notches? Thanks

Mike

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Victory Through Superior Firepower!

Thanks for all the replies. I don't know quite what I will do. It will be a simple express sight rifle with no rib. The 505 caliber worried me at first until I found cast bullets at huntingtons to use. I heard a guide in Alaska used 680 grain hard cast in his, but I think it was a 510 diameter Gibbs improved. I read Ross Seyfried's article on the Nyati, and he mentioned a 585 for $1500, so I figured a single shot Gibbs would be less. Will let you guys know what I decide, and how cost-effective it actually is. That 500A-Square is laughing at me and my nostalgia.
300H&H

As for the stock on the CZ, it isn't nearly as bad as it looks. My cousin has both a .375 H&H and a .416 Rigby in the 550 Safari and is extremely impressed with the action and says he'll take the stock instead of spending the extra bucks to replace it with a straighter one.

IMHO the cheapest route to a 505 is a CZ550 Mag. Single shot Mods of the Ruger are plaqued with horror stories of cracked stocks and retinal reattachment surgery stories! This is not the easiest cartridge to get to feed properly so make sure the gunsmith who does it for you knows what he's doing. The bolt face of the CZ will need to be opened to .640 and the extractor adjusted. The rails and ramp will also need a bit of massaging to assure proper feeding and extraction. You will need a new barrel and chamber and I would suggest having Pac-Nor do the work. You will absolutely need a second recoil lug on the barrel and good luck finding someone who will do that for you. John Ricks would be a good reccomendation. Finally, you will need a good stock and Mcmillan ( if you can wait 6 months) seems to be the best option.
When the cold light of dawn hits, talk to Butch Searcy as he is making beautiful 505 Gibbs barreled actions with fully machined integral ribs and bottom barrel lugs on a modified Vector action. cost is about $2500 and well worth it. Been there done this! Hope this helps.-Rob

It would be more economical to build a 500 A-Square on a cz550.

I second 500 grains advice the 500 A2 would be the easiest and cheapest route to go. A .458 lott would also be a pretty cool thing to do as well.

300H&H

In reading the replies, Robgunbuilder is spot on in what he says. From what I have seen built, owned etc in Australia, the CZ550 seems to be the easiest for building a 505 Gibbs and 500 Jeffrey although some people use FN Mauser actions for 500 Jeffrey's.

I do know of someone who is building a 505 Gibbs on a Ruger No 1, however I couldn't understand why he decided on a rimless cartridge and not the Rimmed 500 Nitro.

I previously owned a Ruger No 1 in 500 Nitro and it was a handle to shoot with full Nitro loads, however once we put in a Mercury Recoil reducer it was excellent to shoot.

However IMHO, I do tend to disagree with Mike 375's comments that "Without a muzzle brake any of the 50s, 500 Jeffrey, 505, 500 Nitro will just about break your neck if you loaded them up to the full potential of the case".

I have not had any problems shooting any of these calibres at full loads / velocity (what I call my hunting loads which are full on loads). Of the 3, my 500 Jeffrey which is a Custom Mauser 98 can be bit of a handfull since it has quite a "thin / light" stock but it certainly doesn't break my neck. My 505 Gibbs and 500 Nitro's are no problems at all at full loads and this is partly due to them being stocked correctly. I shoot all of them at least every 2 months.

In terms of cost, the cost of dies, brass and bullets should be taken into account and in this case the 505 Gibbs is more costly.

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro
Australia

500 Nitro,

I base my recoil comments on the 460 Wby with no brake on and 500s at 2550 and the Jeffrey and especially the Gibbs with reasonable brass will far exceed the 460 Wby.

In other words, without a brake and for more than the odd shot at a rock or a tree, there won't be much difference in the ballistics from a 460, 500 Jeffrey, 500 Nitro or 505, at least for 99% of shooters

Mike

Mike,

What 500's at 2550 are you talking about ?

I can understand your comments in terms of 460 Wby without a break as the 2 I have shot were very hard and I believe this has alot to do with the way Weatherby's are stocked.

500 Nitro
Australia

500,

500 grain Hornadies at 2550 f/s in the 460.

I am also like a few other blokes on the forum (although not many of us) that finds the Wby stock the best for recoil.

But perhaps were are not unique as the Lazzeroni rifles have basically the Wby stock.

Mike

I have a wetaherby stock on my cz .416 Rigby, I shoot 410 gr woodelighs at around 2600 fps, this stock is comfortable and I like it. I was suprised I liked it after hearing so much bad stuff about them, but I was told they were the best for hardkickers when I had it made. I will be getting a weatherby on my .585 Nyatti.

There seem to be 2 camps regarding weatherby stocks:

1. Love 'em.

2. Hate 'em.

I prefer the English classic style with little drop because the recoil comes straight back, and the stock moves away from my face during recoil.

I strongly dislike the factory CZ550 hogback European drop stock because it causes a lot of unnecessary muzzle rise.

500Grains,

I can't see how you can say the English stock has little drop.

To me, it is like the Wby except the has the cheek piece added for scope use.

Both have the centre of the butt wellbleow the axis of the bore so the rifle will rise and dissipate much of the recoil.

Mike

Robgunbuilder, I wonder if it would be possible to take a CZ 550 in .460 Wby. and ship it off to Cliff LaBounty for rebore and rerifle and rechamber to .505 or .510, or do you run out of meat in the barrel at the muzzle?

This strategy saves the iron sights, which otherwise have to be replaced when rebarreling, and may substantially reduce the gunsmithing costs.

My recollection is that Daggaron has reported that the .50 BMG AP bullets (available for 25 cents each from Jeff Barrett)are sub-MOA bullets. The economics may be compelling....

Mike,

The Enlgish stocks I have have the end of the comb about 1.5 inches below bore line and almost no slope from the comb (top of the stock) from front to back. They recoil straight back WITHOUT muzzle rise. That is what I like.

Maybe when we say English stock we are talking about 2 different things. I do not mean the hogback European stock on CZ550 magnums.

500 grains,

You are probably right as I am working from memory.

But I do prefer the rifle to rise in recoil.

Mike

SDS- I believe the CZ550 only comes in .416 Rigby, and 458 win Mag in the big bores. I have an old CZ 416 Rigby barrel and there is no way it could be rebored to .505 or .510. No where enough meat. Frankly, you are much better off, buying a .505 or .510 barrel from Pac-Nor and having it fitted to the CZ550, and then putting on a nice set of open sights, a new barrel band and a second recoil lug. . See the pictures of my 585 NYATI that I posted a few months ago. Pac-Nor will even fit the barrel for you if you want, but they won't do any sights or lug work. You can use their number 7 or 8 contour for a nice 12 lb weight on the gun.
Trying to save the old sights on any rebore or rechamber project requires that the gunsmith be able to re-time the barrel exactly correctly. This requires a lathe set up with a accurate degree wheel and the machinists knowledge to do this properly. I've done it many times, and don't enjoy the process, as if I'm even 1 degree out, it drives me crazy and I can see it in the sight allignment. A rebarrel, resight, reblue process is just that much easier to do. I actually, have always wanted a .510 Gibbs as you can then use the .50 BMG bullets in this case. Just like the 500A2.-Rob

300H&H I custom built a muzzle brake for (Sooner)of our members 505 on a Ruger #1. He fired the gun one time without the brake & it almost broke him & he is not a small man! His post are listed here somewhere. Do a search for 505 Gibs. With the brake I built the rifle was very manageable.

I have owned a custom 505 on a magnum ssb mauser action by Davenport. It weighed 10 lbs and was brutal enough for me to sell. I can shoot the 416's and the 458's easily enough, and 50-60 rounds in a day, but that 505 with full power loads in a too light rifle will not be something that you'll want to do casual plinking with! This rifle needs to weigh 11.5-12 lbs. to be managable for most users. After all we are not hunting dangerous stuff for a living and certainly not by ourselves!
lb404
lb404

'Cost effective' and 'new rifle' don't go well together. Have you looked at the .50 AAR? Think they will sell you one for about 3500$ (anyone here got any experience with this cartridge, it looks good on paper?). The re-barrel job on the #1 with sights will probably go 5-600$?. The problem with the #1 is its stock; it is just too skimpy for this application. So now you need a new stock.... Every time I go through this thought process I take the #1 .458 out and convince myself that I don't really need a .50.
C.G.B.

PAL�����
The ruger #1 can handle the caliber easy, just the problem is like other sayd, the stock.
I own a single shoot rifle, is an ENCORE custom barreled to a 458 Lott. After some searching I find the rigth combination and is working really fine and besides the new barrell I just have a HOLLAND muzle brake and original composite butstock with a pachmaier XCELERATOR pad.
and believe me, I just put the brake for keep stress out of action and specialy from butstock.
Standards woods one wil not last and will break after few shoots, also forends, so a fancy laminated wood one is quite expensive to get scratched and utilized in mid of a hunting. This rifle dont kik more than my single shoot 45/70 believe or not is the true. In resume, I had the action and butstock from my 45/70, just ordered a custom full bull 26" barrell plus a Holland brake and piece of cake����� is working.
So just think about of what is going to happen for every change you want and one step at time, write everithing down, and make your own decision, you have a lot of information of all the guys here at the forum and every one has his own experience, so is a personal decision, you will get what you will decide�����good look.

If any one want to see a picture just e-mail me.

Bye

I beg to differ on the Ruger No. 1 stock.

One of my 500 A-Square equivalents is a Ruger No. 1.

It loves 705-750 grain bullets at 2125 to 2150 fps. It also shoots one hole groups with these big bullets, especially the Harlow 705 grainer.

It has withstood over 100 rounds of such loads.

If it ever cracks I will replace it with a laminate.

Of course the original stock was properly glass bedded by my talented gunsmith.

Ruger No. 1's can be very accurate and the stocks are strong.

We have a member here whose namesake 500 Nitro is built on a Ruger No. 1 with walnut stock, and his is durable enough to kill buffalo, elephant, etc. without fear.

[ 06-08-2002, 07:35: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]