quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Both sides ... so predictable!
On one side, those who despise the 500 Jeffery.
On the other side, those jealous of the perfection of the 500 Mbogo.

I should get a 500 Jeffery just out of respect for an old soldier who can continue limping along for 88 years. "Old but not obsolete," as Arnold says in the latest Terminator.
Yep a quaint, old, odd duck of a cartridge.
A real conversation piece.

Of course I would have sense enough to use a Magnum Mauser.

I try not to enter these pissing matches, and I rarely use profanity, but... What a complete D!{k! Go troll somewhere else, and leave this guys post about his special rifle alone. A$$hole! Free speech is a good thing, but common respect is usually called for.

Chip, that is a truly beautiful rifle, and I hope it is everything you want it to be!
MATT

Thanks for the quote!

I agree the rifle is a beauty, best yet shown by ChipB, of all his stable of big bores he has shared here,
just too bad it had to be for a 500 Jeffery.
I have oohed and ahhed at all his other gun porn, but the 500 Jeffery is beyond socially redeeming value.

The Shuler and Jeffery are certainly distinctly different chamberings. Schuler came first, Jeffery second.
Jeffery me-too-ed the Schuler.
I don't think Jeffery ever actually used the Schuler reamers, though Schuler brass could have been resized to use in a Jeffery 500, and vice versa.
Harald Wolf says the first known reference to the 12.7x70mm Schuler was in March 1927.
The 500 Jeffery blueprint for their cartridge came in 1928.

But even the standard M98 bolt face can be skeletonized to fit a .505 Gibbs, like CZ does it with their CZ 550 Magnum that has same bolt diameter as a standard M98, nominally .700" diameter.

The .505 Gibbs has a .6402" case head and a .6402" rim diameter.

The 500 Jeffery and the 12.7x70mm Schuler both have case head diameter of .6189" and rim diameter of .5752".

A non-rebated 500 Jeffery could easily be done on a standard M98.
But that is not as smart as using the non-rebated .416 Rigby-sized case like with the 500 Mbogo, 500 AR, or 500 Bateleur:
Case head diameter: 0.5890"
Rim diameter: .5902"

The 500 Bateleur, like the 500 AR Nyati, fits a standard M98.
Of course the Wiebe bottom metal meant for the 500 Jeffery works better there than it does with a 500 Jeffery.

Here is my standard M98 FN Mauser, 500 Bateleur:





















There is no excuse for a 500 Jeffery. None at all.
I repeat, a non-rebated 500 Jeffery easily fits the bolt face of a Standard M98, same as a Magnum M98.
But that bolt face fits a 500 Bateleur so much easier, and the fatter case body of the 500 Jeffery is a bit worse of a squeeze in any magazine box.


Thanks again Matt, for the quote.

This old fat girl need not apologize to anyone here ! And this is a legitimate excuse for the title of 500 Jeffery ! PEDIGREE !

These few engraved letters on rust blued steel accounts for the intrinsic value of this rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
This old fat girl need not apologize to anyone here ! And this is a legitimate excuse for the title of 500 Jeffery ! PEDIGREE !

These few engraved letters on rust blued steel accounts for the intrinsic value of this rifle.

What a beauty Alf.

Would love to see some photos of whole action area.

I have an old rifle with a magnum mauser action, but in 375H&H belted.

I think one in .500J or 505Gibbs would be the cats meow!

Cheers, Chris

Agree!
Lets see the whole thing!
I was just last night looking over my Schuler Jumbo. The Jefferys are just so much more svelte and just plain better looking!

+1 ALF....we need to see more pics of your rifle..!

I hope CHIPB doesn't think his thread is being hijacked.

However I love to see these classic rifles.

I have classic rifles, I have plastic rifles, but I have no classic plastic rifles.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rockdoc:
I hope CHIPB doesn't think his thread is being hijacked.

Rockdoc: Thanks for your concern....but I have very thick skin. Very little bothers me....particularly stuff that goes on in this forum. I just hope someone out there enjoys what I post. Cheers. Chip.

I enjoy that !

I have one built from Ritterbusch and i like the cartridge 12,7x70 Schüler/500 Jeffery for big game hunting .

Grandveneur:

just for clarity:

The Schüler is not a 500 Jeffery and the 500 Jeffery is not a Schuler ! Therefore there is no such thing as a 12.7x70 Schuler / 500 Jeffery.

This is important ! Because the chamber dimensions for the two cartridges are different as per CIP !

This information was gleaned from the original RWS drawing for the Schuler and the original Kynoch submitted drawing for the the Jeffery though we knew Kynoch never made any ammo for the Jeffery rifles they sold.

The Original Jeffery Rifles were sold with German ammunition with the GECADO headstamp.

GECADO was the HS for Gustav Genschow and co.
The HS of the original ammo read GECADO Schuler 500 with the umlaut inside the U of Schular

What is even more confusing is that Cerrosafe castings of the original 500 Jeffery rifle chambers show a chamber cut to a dimension that is neither 500 Jeffery as per the drawing or Schuler as per the RWS drawing, it is slightly different.

My rifle was built 1998 and you can read on the barrel 12,7x70 Schüler/500 Jeffery. The cartridge is the hybrid from Romey.

Nobody know exactly the dimension of the original cartridge.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...681042502#5681042502

We know exactly what the dimensions of the original was because there are 24 rifles in all built by Mauser.

There are also the cartridges for those guns as sold with the original guns ! I have personally examined the original cartridges !

All their serial numbers of the 24 original are known Jeffery number and Mauser number as well as the date that they were first entered in the Jeffery ledgers. Many have actually been examined and Cerrosafe castings have been made from at least one of them.

I have copies of the original Abercrombie and Fitch ledgers as well as later Griffin and Howe ledgers showing the exact ownership path my rifle took before final sale. Even the person who bought it and the price.

The problem is that unfortunately before CIP accepted the submissions from David Little owner of Kynamco various German companies used and made reamers that were not to the accepted CIP spec. The reamer dimensions are known and listed vary quite significantly in some instances.

Then we add the confusion brought about when references like Barnes COTW lumped both cartridges under the same label and then in error we see stampings on custom barrels that read 12.7 x 70 Schuler /500 Jeffery.

The CIP spec was based on the two original drawings one as registered at the Birmingham Proof house as drawing BK 82/132 of 1928 and the other for the Schuler in the form of drawing M466 by RWS in 1940.

How does one put a price on someting like Alf has?

http://auctions.holtsauctionee...o=+++27385&saletype=

The Fletcher Jamieson rifle sold for 30,000 GBP in 2009. That would have been about 48,000 USD in 2009. The estimate before the auction was 20,000 to 25,000 GBP.
Best I can tell from the link above and googling the GBP in 2009.

The latest Blue Book gleaning is only that the current Jeffery, W.J. & Co. LTD price for a bolt action rifle,
of various calibers from .243 Win. to 500 Jeffery, starts at 38,000 USD MSR, and delivery time is 6 to 15 months.

Anybody know any comparables to Alf's rifle and what the price is/was?

I want to be a gun dealer, and if I could buy something like Alf's rifle I would.
Sort of like buying land. They ain't making anymore of it, except in the ocean.

BTW, Rusty McGee built the 500 Bateleur Mauser to my redneck specifications.
He can't help my taste.

The Jamison Rifle was once held at Bennie Laubscher's in the Paarl near Cape Town.
At that time the rifle was on offer for 70,00 US$. I know it sold to an American buyer but I do not know what it actually realized.

I had the opportunity to inspect that gun and the ammo that went with it.

My gun came about by fluke !
I saw a 500 in a auction list in Red Deer Alberta and I actually took the two day drive to go and look at it. To my surprise it was part of a Estate sale and to boot the auctioneers had no idea what it was. Nor most of the folks that attend that auction.

My luck was further increased when on the day of the Auction or in the day preceding the Auction the whole Eastern seaboard of the US and Canada was hit by a massive power outage which took out the whole grid including all travel for a few days.

That in effect negated input from the big money buyers for the big money second hand gun traders.

The rest is history, The hammer went down in my favour for less than what a modern Magnum Mauser sells for.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:

The rest is history, The hammer went down in my favour for less than what a modern Magnum Mauser sells for.

One of the better investments one could make with that kind of money.
Thanks for sharing, Alf.

Providence!

The Dorleac rifle is obviously an amazing piece.

No comment on the FN project.

No comment

Stuart Satterlee is a bitter wunderkind because he caved and refunded my money.
Boy did I get lucky!
And Satterlee is still sucking his thumb and talking trash ...

And all I was trying to do was to show something that I thought was pretty. It's all good! Cheers. Chip.

Chip no worries you bought a fantastic rifle!