I'm looking to buy a 416 and have narrowed it down to the Ruger Alaskan in .416 Ruger or the Winchester Safari in .416 Remington. I can see advantages and disadvantages in both cartridges, so for arguments sake i'd like to consider them equal and just discuss advantages and disadvantages of the rifles. My top priorities are relibility and smooth feeding. Anyone have experience with both rifles???

I built a 416 taylor if I were to do it again today it would be a 416 ruger. I have shot the remington nothing wrong with that.

I like the idea of the ruger not having a belted caae.

I think my primary consideration is weight, handling (quick first shot and quick follow up) and recoil. The Ruger should be a dream to carry but probably not much fun for practice. And you need to be able to recover from recoil and shoot quickly. There seem to be a lot of 375Rugers on the trade in racks around here. The 416Ruger is a pretty rare bird.

Your no1 priority is reliability, there have been some reported issues with the Alaskans feeding and extraction(and alot of bitter argument), but so far nothing but 100% praise for the new production M70's out of the Carolina plant (no arguments).

My own suggestion is you forget the advise you get here and handle the two guns and also consider you past experience carrying a gun all day. And you ability to deal with recoil, the Ruger will be too much for many in 416.

The Winchester is a more traditional weight, I would think about ideal for a 40 cal DG gun. But, you do need to carry it around.

I dont know what the future will be for either load or current availability world wide. The 416 Rem seemed on the decline but still hanging in there and should regain popularity with the great M70 offering. While 416 Ruger is very new and time will tell on that.

The Winchester cost more, you probably get what you pay for. Ruger seems to be targeting the bottom line buyer. I think, the M70 looks much much nicer too.

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

I drove around to some area gunshops this morning to see if I could find an example of each to handle. I found a Winchester Safari in 375 H&H that I thought handled really nicely. The barrel was lighter than I expected. Overall, I really liked it but I wasn't thrilled with the quality of the open sights on it. I couldn't find an Alaskan to handle, but did look over a couple stainless synthetic Hawkeyes. I liked the matte stainless finish, but they had alot of slop in the bolt. Sorry, I dont know the correct term, but when the bolt was pulled back all the way you could move it around alot more than I've found on the other bolt actions i've owned. Is this common on the 77? Is it enough to bind the bolt up when you cycle it in a hurry?

get the Ruger-the champ of all rifles.If you don't want a lott get a Ruger RSM MK2 416 Rigby.

If you had to pick one, I'd get the Remington (Winchester rifle). If I'd have to guess, when Ruger and Hornady pass on to the happy shooting ground the 416 Remington will still be around. The 416 Rem Mod. 70's I had always fed smoothly and reliably.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
If I'd have to guess, when Ruger and Hornady pass on to the happy shooting ground the 416 Remington will still be around.

I believe that to be a good guess Will. Low volume sales and limited production of components will eventually issue a death certificate on the Ruger 416. The new M70's I've heard nothing but praise from about seven folk that have bought them, zero complaints and they are accurate out of the box.

quote:

Originally posted by fourbore:
Ruger seems to be targeting the bottom line buyer.

Didn't they always? Isn't that their claim to fame?

What with their customer service saying 4" groups at 100 yards are entirely satisfactory. Stamped metal and press molded sintered metal parts. Whatever way to make a gun cheaper, Rooger did it. Cheap, cheap cheap.

I have both and I am getting rid of the ruger, the new mod 70's saferi are really nice, in fact nice enough I bought two of them a 375 H$H and a 416 Rem mag. the 416 is the smoothest feeding rifle I have ever owned and is africa ready rigth out of the box. Rugers are nice but not the rifle's the mod 70's are.


Good luck and god speed to all!

No question on this one: Winchester Model 70 in .416 Remington.

Just a thught from the custom end. I haven't had a call for a 416 Remington in years. It's all 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger..416 Ruger catching on fast!

quote:

Originally posted by 460 wby shooter:
I have both and I am getting rid of the ruger, the new mod 70's saferi are really nice, in fact nice enough I bought two of them a 375 H$H and a 416 Rem mag. the 416 is the smoothest feeding rifle I have ever owned and is africa ready rigth out of the box. Rugers are nice but not the rifle's the mod 70's are.


Good luck and god speed to all!

Agree,- from my experience the Rugers need some hours at the gunsmith. But then they will turn into 100% reliable and extremely strong rifles..

I have one in 375 Ruger, 458 Acc Rel and very soon also a 500 Acc Rel

WINCHESTER WINCHESTER WINCHESTER


But if you want something better than the Ruger and smaller than the full Safari get a Winchester M70 in 416 B&M!


Michael

Thank you for all the responses so far! I'm actually a little surprized by the overwhelming support of the Winchester. You guys are making my decision easy on me!

I would vote for a CZ rifle and 416 Rigby actually,(you don't have to load it to the max all the time) but would pick the Winny over the Ruger and the 416 Ruger cartridge over the belted magnums, for smoother feeding.

I have a 375 H&H barrel for one of my Savage LA's I modified a bit and put in an early 375 H&H factory magazine and also a 416 Taylor barrel for it(since switched over to a Ruger Tang M77 action)...I just never got it to feed right with those two belted mag cases even though it fed without a hitch with both the 7mmRM and 300 WM barrels switched in.

I made up a dummy stub barrel and some dummy 375 and 416 Ruger brass and it would feed both of those cases slick as owl pucky. I've often thought of rechambering it to 375 RUM and might just do it... ...I don't have to load THAT one balls to the wall either.

I like the Ruger case and CZ and Winchester rifles over the Ruger. Too bad Winchester doesn't offer more chamberings for the Safari model.

Luck

I own model 70's and rugers and a CZ in 404. I cannot imagine that anyone would not be exceedingly happy with the Winchester Model 70 in 416.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Just a thught from the custom end. I haven't had a call for a 416 Remington in years. It's all 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger..416 Ruger catching on fast!

Of course, its all about the oldest and the youngest. Everyone knows the middle child gets ignored the most lol.

Now, are your calls for 416 Ruger rifles coming in for rubber stocked, ultra light, SS models like the Alaskan? I imagine there is a lot of custom 416 Rugers being made because there is no other factory choice BUT the rifle described above. I thought about building one a few times, but only because they're not available in any other option but the Alaskan.

RUGER ALASKAN:

- ALL STAINLESS STEEL
- PERFECT SIGHTS
- SHORT & LIGHT & FAST
- SUB MOA
- LESS THAN $800
- GREAT SCOPE MOUNTS / BASES
- UNBEATABLE CUSTOMER SERVICE (if u need it)
- GOOD TRIGGER
- CHEAP & ACCURATE AMMO + BRASS

If you want a rifle to hunt and shoot with & drag through snow, rain, and mountains, get the Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by mwm464:
RUGER ALASKAN:

- ALL STAINLESS STEEL
- PERFECT SIGHTS
- SHORT & LIGHT & FAST
- SUB MOA
- LESS THAN $800
- GREAT SCOPE MOUNTS / BASES
- UNBEATABLE CUSTOMER SERVICE (if u need it)
- GOOD TRIGGER
- CHEAP & ACCURATE AMMO + BRASS

If you want a rifle to hunt and shoot with & drag through snow, rain, and mountains, get the Ruger.

well I must say that I really agree with you. I have had many rifles of different makes over the years, but only tried a Ruger for the first time two years ago. Never felt for Rugers before.. It was a Hawkeye Alaskan in 375 Ruger. I must say that I was impressed to put it mildly..
Sub moa accuracy and perfect feed and function, just had to do some triggerwork to make it perfect. Have bought two Hawkeyes after that, one converted to Jeffes 458 Acc Rel and one is becomming a 500 Acc Rel very soon.. As a reliable working tool these rifles are unbeatable in my experience if they get a few hours at the gunsmith first for minor adjustments..


Ulrik

I like the 416Remington, but I have years worth of stuff to keep it running. I'm currently building another 416Remington on an M70 I've been sitting on for years. But, if I didn't already have so much stuff and was starting from scratch, I'd go 416Ruger. It's a far better designed cartridge in just about every method of measure and it is here to stay.

As for the rifles, that's a personal choice like boots and backpacks. The Rugers are equally accurate and may even be more durable. I completely dislike the Browning box trigger that they have modified to fit in the SC Winchester, I don't care for it at all. In addition, the Safari stock used on these later NH/SC Winchesters are the absolute worst design in my opinion, and for me are worthless. But some think they are great. So you need to see for yourself which feels best in your hands, if you are trying to get something out of a box requiring little work.

Good Luck!

My Mod. 70 .416 is great. Nothing wrong with the Ruger other than the STOCK. It's rude.

I own both and if I had to give one up it would be the Winchester

I'm glad to see some support for the Ruger showing up! It sounds like I really need to try and find a shop that has both so I can compare how they handle.

I have noticed that it looks like Ruger is doing away with the barrel band on the new Alaskans. Is that a big deal? I would rather have it on the barrel, but I dont know if I could find someone with an old one in stock or if all that's availible are the new ones with the studs on the the stock.

Probably gunna get people upset with this one...

I personally don't care for barrel bands on my rifles that I'm going to be shooting for anything much over 150yds. If your going with a 416 or 375 you have the ability to reach out some distance, and 95% of the time a free floated barrel is going to give you the best accuracy - in my experience. All the Ruger Alaskans with the Hogue stocks are free floated. The other issue with barrel bands is if you use your sling for shooting, POI can change a bit when you tighten things down & get "locked" in to position. Get a stock mounted fore swivel, hang on, and you shouldn't have any problems.

The Rugers will smooth'n up a lot after you start using em. Get some flitz, coat the bolt & lugs, and work the action for a half hour. This will smooth'n things up a bit.

I would go with the ruger, just to avoid the belt on the rem. I know of a very nice 416 rem on a montana 1999 in a accurate inovations stock ,birdsall teflon finish over stainless.

for about $1600 hundred sighted in but never hunted looks new.

Its not mine but pm if interested

JD

Bought the .375 alaskan, loved it so I bought the .416alaskan for myself and a .375african for my son (he loves blue steel/wood).

2x Leupold in QD rings and I have a SUPER rig for buffalo etc. Best of all rifle/scope out the door for less than 1K.

Accurate, Reliable and affordable!

quote:

Originally posted by mwm464:
Probably gunna get people upset with this one...

I personally don't care for barrel bands on my rifles that I'm going to be shooting for anything much over 150yds. If your going with a 416 or 375 you have the ability to reach out some distance, and 95% of the time a free floated barrel is going to give you the best accuracy - in my experience. All the Ruger Alaskans with the Hogue stocks are free floated. The other issue with barrel bands is if you use your sling for shooting, POI can change a bit when you tighten things down & get "locked" in to position. Get a stock mounted fore swivel, hang on, and you shouldn't have any problems.

I had always thought that the barrel band sling woud detract from any aid the sling could give in shooting because of the oft documented "fact that it would "grossly effect the POI. I have them on my 7x57 and 404 and found that if I grip the sling tightly against the forearm I can see the slack from there to the sling swivel and still get enough tension in the hasty sling position to be a real help in steadying the rifle for aided accuracy over free handing.

Von Gruff.

a quick search found severalnew alaskins for sale in 416 for under $800.00.

JD

I just picked up a used but near new New Haven M70 416 Rem and am darn impressed with the rifle. I gave $1100 for it and was looking for one of the NH rifles as I wanted the original M70 trigger rather than the new fangled one. It has a nice NECG rear sight, second barrel mounted recoil lug and feeds the 400 gr Hornady RN slick as can be. I will be looking to tweak it a bit. First to confirm if it has the Williams extractor and replace as necessary, second to re-bed the action with Acraglass as the factory stuff is soft enough to dig my fingernail into and, lastly, I will install an NECG banded from sight combo to replace the relatively cheap looking screwed on factory unit. When that dust has settled I may strip and refinish the stock as I see what might be some decent wood under that brown "smear" the factory applied. If I go this route I will also fit a steel grip cap and a softer Decelerator pad, parts sitting in the junk box. All in, at most, I will have another few hundered dollars or so into it so maybe a $1500 piece that will be darn nice I believe. I considered the Ruger but just fell for the feel of the Winchester. YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Whatever way to make a gun cheaper, Rooger did it. Cheap, cheap cheap.

And winchester, and remington, and kimber... they all use design expiedients to cut costs.

And then you have companies like savage and marlin taking things to a whole new low...

Are they accurate guns? Yes, but all that means is that modern manufacturing tech is so good that if you make a rifle that costs more than 600.00 you have no excuse for not having the rifle shoot MOA or damn close.

quote:

Originally posted by banjomule:
I'm looking to buy a 416 and have narrowed it down to the Ruger Alaskan in .416 Ruger or the Winchester Safari in .416 Remington. I can see advantages and disadvantages in both cartridges, so for arguments sake i'd like to consider them equal and just discuss advantages and disadvantages of the rifles. My top priorities are relibility and smooth feeding. Anyone have experience with both rifles???

What many of you should be looking at, depending on your purpose for these rifles, being 416 caliber I can only assume that one would consider them "Dangerous Game Rifles". You must have two criteria for this selection. 1. Feed and Function 2. Feed and Function WITH PROPER DESIGNED Dangerous Game Bullets for the mission you intend. Regardless of whether it is a Ruger or Winchester, extensive shooting on the range is required, hard working the action to assure feed and function, and retain. I have half dozen Winchesters in 416, factory and custom shop, and have never had an issue with feed and function and retain of these rifles from the factory, and they feed proper flat nose solids with 65% or better meplat for straight line and deep penetration. I have Rugers, that will not do that. If you consider this a DGR--then don't look for the cheapest version! Look for what will work, feed, function, and retain, with bullets that do not compromise performance, for function! Ruger or Winchester does not matter, as long as it does these things. Myself I will choose the Winchester every time, but if you choose the Ruger, it must accomplish this mission, and if it does not get work done to it so it will.

One should not compromise when it comes to a big bore rifle intended for dangerous game. If you do this, then you short change yourself!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I own both and if I had to give one up it would be the Winchester

Is that because Rooger pays you to say so?

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I own both and if I had to give one up it would be the Winchester

Is that because Rooger pays you to say so?

Nope, I am on nobody's payroll and have never received any free merchandise from them either. I just call them as I see them.
Both Winchester and Ruger make good guns. With proper tuning I have a slight preference for the Winchester but from the box I'll take the Ruger any day.

I have the M70 in .416 rem in a new rifle from the South Carolina factory. It feeds and handles perfectly.

I have found the .416 rem ammo a lot cheaper than .416 Ruger or .416 Rigby if that makes any difference.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I own both and if I had to give one up it would be the Winchester

Is that because Rooger pays you to say so?

Nope, I am on nobody's payroll and have never received any free merchandise from them either. I just call them as I see them.
Both Winchester and Ruger make good guns. With proper tuning I have a slight preference for the Winchester but from the box I'll take the Ruger any day.

Anyone who follows Phil’s writing knows his statement above to be true. A few years ago he did a review on the new Leupold products. In that review he pointed out that the new adjustments were a POS. While I don’t remember all the details, I do remember reading it and thinking how nice it was to see a writer tell it like it is. How many times have we seen other writers do reviews on low quality optics and tell us how great they are. You get the famous “very good for the price” . Kind of like saying that a woman looks like a babe as long as you don’t get too close to her.

I personally feel you can take Phil’s word to the bank……

I would pick Model 70 over Ruger every time and just because of receiver design and hence bedding.

I must second Phil - I like the Winchesters very well, they are great rifles, but the last two years experience with the Ruger Hawkeye rifles have made me prefer them slightly..

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
I have the M70 in .416 rem in a new rifle from the South Carolina factory. It feeds and handles perfectly.

I have found the .416 rem ammo a lot cheaper than .416 Ruger or .416 Rigby if that makes any difference.

Where have you found .416 Remington ammo a lot cheaper? Even the new Hornady 416Rem ammo is running $80 bucks a box! The costs on my premium reloads using Barnes bullets cost me $27.20 per box, which includes my time to reload. I'm even thinking of switching to the Hornady DGX bullet to get my costs down to $24 per box. Those 416s require deep pockets to regularly shoot with factory loadings. I'd love to get a tip on some ammo that's a lot cheaper.

Thanks!