I posted this in the Big Game Hunting section and thought it might have been more appropriate here...

I didn't want to muddle up the .338 thread, but it did make me wonder, so here's my question:

Among the .375 calibers, the H&H has been described as having a 'push' rather than a 'slap' type of recoil.
How would the new .375 Ultra compare?
The .375 Weatherby?
JRS?
Ackley Improved?

I'm looking forward to whatever delicious punishment the H&H brings.

(edited: I should ask this in the Big Bore section as well, I guess.)

Bus,

The Weath. JRS and Ackley have almost the same ballistics so recoil will feel approxiamtely the same.

I have no idea regarding the RUM. Check the powder weights and velocities, if it uses more powder and the velocities are higher, it will recoil more. You can check this by using online recoil programs. You want to look for the recoil velocity, this is the one that hurts.

Any of the ones you mention will have more felt recoil than the old 375 H&H,in the same rifle, but none of them will do anything the old H&H won't do as well, except, burn more powder, and recoil more! The magic formula for the 300 gr .375 bullet on game is 2550 fps, and that is the home of the old 1912 375 H&H. Also if your second rifle on Safari is a 30-06 with 180 gr bullets the trejectory is identical to the 375 H&H with the 300 gr bullet, so they make a combination that the hold over is the same no matter which you are shooting.

Why is 2550 fps magic ? Why not 2450 , 2375 , or 2650 fps ?

Don't forget the .376 Steyr, which does in a standard length case the same velocities as the .375 H&H with same weight bullets using less powder and generating less recoil.

I shoot a 375RUM, it weights in at 8.25lbs with 2x-7x scope.It's recoil is harder and faster than the 375H&H.It is not that bad though, just very quick.I'm shooting 300gr partitions @2830 fps and 270gr X bullets @ 3050 fps with RL19.Both of these loads are very accurate.The recoil is closer to the 378 wby or 416 rem than the H&H.

Believe me, the H&H in a 9lb. Ruger No.1 firing a 300-grain bullet at over 2600 FPS has a definite "slap" to it.

[ 08-04-2003, 22:21: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

Mac said it all....

As to 2550, 2600, 2400 FPS being magic, not at all but 2400 to 2600 is magic in big bores as to bullet integrity for the most part and 2550 splits the differnce so it can't be all bad

I prefer 2400 FPS, in big bores for no other reason than it has worked well for me for many years..and thats about all I can get without running pressure up to max and I don't ever hunt dangerous game with max loads..function being better than velocity....

I thought that word "MAGIC" would draw fire!

The fact is, tests have been run in Africa, on African game, and the findings after a 300 gr .375 gr bullet passes 2600 FPS the penetration is actually hendered, because bullets are upset to fast, or are driven off at angles.

A .375 dia, is best pushed at between 2400, and 2600 fps, while the .400s are best topped out at 2600 fps, and the .450s work best at between 2150, and 2500 fps for a 480 gr up to 500 gr bullets, on heavy game like Cape Buffalo.

The origenal poster did not say what type of game he wanted to hunt, but one would assume he was refering to at least, Brown bear, which is soft compared to most game in Africa, needing far less power to finish.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the cartridges that were listed, but, like fishing lures, these cartridges were designed to catch more shooters, than game. They are simply not an improvement on the old 375 H&H, regardless what the numbers on paper tell you. Game is not as impressed by numbers in books, as buyers, of new rifles, are!

Wal , if 2675 fps is too much , and waaay inferior to 2575 , then ya jest need ta back up fifty steps........

I couldn't get the Forums to appear for a day, so I'm just catching the latest posts (aw, shucks, I missed you guys... )
Anyway, the answers are great and informative, as usual.

As to the most dangerous game I'll likely ever hunt, Mac was right on with the Brown Bear.

The 'catch more shooters' comment is one reason I'm asking the question about the various .375's.

My intention first and foremost was/is to have a .375 H&H rifle for the pure joy of owning one.
Being candid with such esteemed company has been somewhat humbling and at times a little embarrassing , but, I knew I had to go somewhere that the answers would be True, even with a little ribbing along with them.

Honestly, for my uses and no one elses, I'm torn between the Remington 700 and the Browning A-Bolt II with the gadgets, as I've mentioned elsewhere.
Remingtons I got; Browning BAR I got; Browning bolt-action .375 H&H super-bitchin' fun-gun to play with --- sure sounds like something to have a good time at the range with and possibly use it for non-dangerous game or a bear hunt someday.
The important thing for me is to "GET A .375" rifle.

I appreciate everyone's tolerance of my questions and antics so far! Thank you.

Hell everybody told me that about the .375H&H before I got one. When I did get one I found out lots of people love the old H&H & are just conning you to get one. I've got the buises to prove it!!

On the bench I sure feel like I'm getting belted without anything to reduce the recoil. I've got a recoil reducing jig which makes bench shooting a breeze (by basically increasing the effective weight of the rig). My first .375 was a Sako L691 with wood stock & weighed 8.5lbs scoped but unloaded. It "slaps" you none of this gentle push business.

Still on game you just don't feel it. That you can believe. Hand on heart stuff.

I've since put on a HS Precision stock on it, with better recoil pad and 1/2lb more weight. Much nicer now whilst still light enough to carry all day.

Even though a .375 H&H "belts" you I still love them cause now I've got 3 of em. One a M70 Stainless Classic I'm having reamed to .375RUM. I'll let you know what the recoil is like when I start shooting it. I'm keen to find out too cause the people that told me not to do it never shot one.

Don't forget too that you can get used to recoil over time. So don't let that put you off. Just take it easy & a bit at a time. Definitely, on the bench don't suffer the recoil there is just no point. Get a jig, shoulder pads, whatever-just get them. Then you can really enjoy the med/big bores & its a lot of fun to make the most noise at the range.

Self interest here too, I want more people to shoot a .375 RUM. Don't want it to be a wildcat & it seems to be dying. I think if Win chambered for it they'd sell a lot more rifles because of the DGR/CRF thing. Also I really do think the 700 Rem's barrel profile is too light for this calibre.

I'd always start with a .375H&H & hopefully you'll like it so much you'll have more than one. when you get to 3 think of the poor man's .375/404 SAEED ie. .375RUM.

Everybody will tell you too that you don't need anymore ballistics than a .375 H&H can provide. Its probably true but who cares, have a bit of fun.

Last time at the range, I sat between a CETME .308 and a Bushmaster M4gery .223, both with muzzle brakes.
I was trying to shoot my Remington 700 Police and couldn't concentrate very well getting BLASTED from both sides...
If I end up with the .375 A-Bolt/BOSS, I just might seek these two guys out next time and sit between them!

Sure those are muzzle brakes, and not flash suppressors?
Still, they do vent the gases at about a 90 degree angle, and I never did figure out what flash they suppressed. Looked to me like they just made a bigger target to identify and shoot at...

By the way, I reserve my full house 454 level 45 loads for just such occassions. Full case of H-110 under a 230 grain bullet makes a 357 mag sound like a 22. I particularly hate 357 2 inch guns. Defeats the purpose of the round, gives tremendous blast and recoil for no velocity and a little bullet.

Not this last 20 round time, but the one prior, I was shooting offhand, and benching, my 375 H&H.

A guy was shooting a very annoying 30-06 M1 garand, IIRC, short barrel, and flash suppressor.
Under our range roofs, that makes a LOT of noise(NOT a LOTT of noise, that's reserved for full house 375 rounds;-)

Anyway, I was shooting my 22 as well, off the bench, and his blast was really bothering me.

Got out the 375 and he went to the 100 yard range, pronto... :evil:
s

[ 08-07-2003, 00:55: Message edited by: Socrates ]

I have a 375 H&H. It shoots great. I do not understand the big rage now with velocity. 2400 fps vs 2700 fps. If you want faster than buy a weatherby or lazzeroni. The super ultra fast small short ultra remington/winchester thing is plain stupid. How long has the H&H been around? 75 years? It works. Do not mess with perfection. You can buy ammo anywhere. I also shoot a 300 wby. I bought it before the new "ultra" mags. Now what would I buy? still the wby and the H&H. just my 2 cents

Guess fast sells ammo in the states.

Want to get kicked hard? Federal 300 grain, 2700 fps, HE round. Packed 375 case, should be about 62 ft-lbs of energy in a 8 pound rifle, with a 22" barrel.

Been shooting Federal's classic, 270 grain, at 2700 fps, and that's no walk in the park.

S