The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Hunting Deer and Bear with the 444 MarlinGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Ladies and Gentlemen: I would like to buy a Marlin 444S for deer and black bear hunting here in Pennsylvania. What has been your experience with this round, including the best bullet weight for deer and/or bear, optimum velocity and type of bullet? I have read that the 444 Marlin pushing standard 44 magnum 240 grain bullets at 2200-2400 fps causes the bullets to over expand, since they were designed for 44 magnum velocities. Is this a valid concern, and do certain types of .429 bullets hold up better in the 2200-2400 fps velocity range? Also, is it better to step up to the 265 grain Hornady, 270 grain Speer Gold Dot, or 300 grain Nosler for black bear? Sincerely, Chris Bemis | ||
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Hi Chris, I used to reload for a friend who had one back in the 70s. We hunted upstate NY and had the same deer and bear populations you have in PA (though your bears are bigger) I used the 265 Remington soft points back then becuase that was all we had and really better than any of the 240 grainers out - these turned inside out and shed jackets at 444 velocities. Now? I would use the Nosler 250 grain partition or the Swift 280 grain A-frame. I can't say I hve used either in the 444 on deer or bear but have never been disappointed in either in any caliber a any velocity. Good luck, Paul NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Dear Paul: Thank you for your information. FYI, Nosler does not make the 250 grain partition for the .429 bore size anymore. At least I cannot find it anywhere, except in my 2002 Nolser bullets reloading guide. I think I'll try the 265 grain Hornady soft point at ~2200 fps. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I would go with the Hornady. The Speer and the Nolser were designed as a pistol bullets where the Hornady was specifically designed as a rifle buller for 444 velocities. Te A frame is a great bullet but no deer or black bear will be able to tell the difference between it an dthe hornady... Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The 444 is not a bad round, but the 1895 in 45-70 is a better choice IMHO. A lot greater ammo selection, and bullet/brass selection for handloading. You can load it like a heavy 45 Colt or up to 4/5's of a 458 mag or anything in between. Good bullets for the 444 are few. Good bullets for the 45-70 are many and can be much less expensive. The 444 also is somewhat hampered by a 1 in 32" twist barrel, which makes no sense. It stabilizes heavy bullets well enough for the type of hunting you will be doing, however. Winchester made a model 94 blackshadow in 444 that was lightweight and very handy. It had a black synthetic stock. The marlin 444's are heavier than their 45-70's. Good luck either way. Both rounds make a big hole! Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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A friend loads heavy, hard-cast WFN bullets in his .444 Marlin, and took it to Africa some years back. Quite a killer. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Modern 444 Marlins are 1:20" twist, have been since about 1997, older barrels were 1:38", cast bullets 355gr and under worked fine in the slower twist tho.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell444Marlin.htm http://www.marlinfirearms.com/...arms/bigbore/444.asp http://www.beartoothbullets.co...ve_tech_notes.htm/17 http://www.beartoothbullets.co...ve_tech_notes.htm/19 http://www.beartoothbullets.co...ve_tech_notes.htm/28 | |||
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I used the Hawk .035 jacket 300 grainers on one bear and it dropped very quickly. I also used 300 grain cast bullets in my .444 which was an older rifle. The second bear was smaller but dropped with the second shot- placement. Never had the chance for taking a deer with it but I found it was a serious rifle to shoot and enjoyed carrying it if nothing more. Frank | |||
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Bingo!  | |||
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Yes. I agree too. he .45-70 is much more versatile, has more ammo available, and a better selection of bullets. LWD | |||
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I reload the 444 for my brother in law with the 265gr Hornady FTX. He has a H&R handi rifle with the terrible trigger!! It is very effective on deer! Opens up and leaves big holes on the opposite side. Recoil is not bad and the pointed bullet helps with ballistics. I have reloaded new and once fired hornady brass. Hornady uses brass which is shorter than standard new brass with this bullet but I measured the chamber and was able to reload the new brass at full length without contacting the lands. Measure the chamber before you try this. | |||
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the 444 is a good round when used with the horn 265. my experience is here in alaska and the only real problem i have is the lever action in weather. not that is wont function , but when im back at camp and have to try to clean all the little areas that collect water n grit,,,its more work then my bolts by far. the 444 with the horn 265's will penetrate well in close in my experience. ive quartered the front of moose at under 75 yds and had the bullet go thru behind the facing shoulder and tear thru the vitals an carry on to bust and maim the off shoulder then truckin on to wind up in a black spruce tree. expansion was good and left great wound channel exiting but the moose didnt know it was dead so started to walk away when i shot thru the neck rite behind the noggin and anchored rite there. neck shot was terrible in the damage and the neck meat was un usable clear back to the shoulder...not bad for a small lever in the rain shooting a large 44 cal bullet. having said this and ill never let my 444 go but i also would and have taken my 45-70 marlin since i got it for camp protection. heavier bullets and fast for the follow up but it stays inside and outta the rain. both rifles are great and reliable killers if you shoot them well and use judgment with regards to bullet choice. ---------------------------------- when all is said and done...more will be said then done | |||
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Thank you for all your informative experience. I've wanted either a 444 Marlin or a 45-70 Marlin since I was a teenager, and I'll start looking for one or the other later this summer. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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