Getting ready to buy one of the 2 in a Ruger No. 1. Trying to rate the pluses/minuses of both.

.458 WM, pluses cheap brass, lots of bullets, cheap dies. Minuses: Full power loads probably at the upper end of my recoil tolerence.

450/400 3" pluses: great sectional density, less recoil at the upper end, COOL factor Minuses: fewer bullet selections, expensive brass/dies[unless I can find Hornadys].

My practicality says get the 458[I have a couple spotted]. My heart says the 450/400 NE would be really cool.

One day I'm on one, the next day, on the other. Help me make a decision[if that's possible ]

Mad Dog

The 450/400 is noticeably faster handling than the 458, mainly because the barrel is of a slighyl lighter contour. If you handle both side by side you can instantly tell the difference. My 450/400 handles very well and balances far better than the 458.

Brass and dies aren't a problem for the 450/400, I use Hornady for both; bullets are easy too, as the Ruger can use most .410-.411 bullets including the 300 grainers made for the 405 Winchester and cast bullets designed for the 41 Magnum.

And the cool factor is undeniable... something about the "thunk" of a three inch shell just goes right with a falling block action.

Hey maddog,if you reload..get a 458lott and have the best of all..Hornady has great brass and the 458lott can be loaded up or down to whatever you desire without a very high cost & you can still fire the 458wm rounds if you wish...& still have the cool factor

Oregon45, guess I'm strongly leaning your way. Did you have much trouble finding the hornady dies. Couple places I looked, they didn't have any.

Mad Dog

Mad Dog: Another vote for the .450/400. It is just so RIGHT in a fine single shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Mad Dog: Another vote for the .450/400. It is just so RIGHT in a fine single shot.

+1
In a single shot it is going to be a lot more fun.

If you reload, and don't mind some more expensive components, the 450/400 3" is awful cool, and effective on most everything you can find. Besides, there is just something special about saying 450/400 Nitro Express. The 458 win has the advantage of cheap ammo and a bit more stopping oomph.

As for 450/400 bullets, look at some of the 405 win bullets for practice. Woodleigh for the show.

John.

As an aside, I just purchased a 450/400 for the wife on our anniversary...

I have Ruger # 1's in both the 458 Lott and the 450-400 NE. Get the 450-400. You won't regret it I assure you.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Oregon45, guess I'm strongly leaning your way. Did you have much trouble finding the hornady dies. Couple places I looked, they didn't have any.

Mad Dog

They are supposed to be released the 27th of July.

John

You can load the 458 down for less recoil, but the "1 is pretty light for full power loads. The 400 would be my choice.

If you go with the 400 , I would lay in a good supply of Brass .. One great benefit to the 458 . Brass is very easy to come by for it ............. 41 mag pistol bullets and 15 gr of Unique make a great plinking load in the 400 also ...

+1 for the 450/400 NE.

In a #1, 450-400

Keith

For you boys that reload the 450/400, who did you get your dies from[if hornady isn't releasing them til july 27]? Also who is your most reliable supplier for bullets/brass, ie: Midway USA?

Mad Dog

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
For you boys that reload the 450/400, who did you get your dies from[if hornady isn't releasing them til july 27]? Also who is your most reliable supplier for bullets/brass, ie: Midway USA?

Mad Dog

RCBS makes them, their Safari dies are +/- $150. Before the Safari dies, they were offered by the custom shop at +/-$300.

John

My vote is for the 450/400. The No.1 has proven very reliable over the years, but in my humble opinion, that action screams for a rimmed cartridge. The 458 bore is definately versatile, what with 45-70 bullets available, but so is the 40 bore. Not only 41 mag pistol bullets mentioned, there are a wealth of 40 cal. cast bullet molds for the old black powder single shot cartridges. That was what the 450/400 3 1/2" started out as. If they ever outlawed smokeless powder, you would still have a first class deer rifle.

Assuming the ruger is a true .410 bore, can you use any .410-.411 in it, including mono-solids?

Also, what is a good powder, to start with, that you don't need to use fillers in the case?
H4831, H4350?

Mad Dog

I don't own a 450/400 so can't really speak for it, but I do have a 416R & 458Lott (Ruger#1). 400s I have shot (doubles) always seemed anaemic to me, but I guess they can be uploaded in the #1. The 400 should handle/carry easier, the 458 is a little unwieldy. But I prefer the Lott for its great versatility, load up or down.

Can't say anything about a #1. But I really, really like my 77 in 458 wm. The fact that it is so flexable and can shoot 250 grain bullets to 600 grain bullets via loading your own ammo and the fact you can get ammo most anywhere are great benefits. If you get the Lott version, it is even more flexible, especially on the top end.

I have a set of Hornady dies that came with my rifle; I bought the rifle used last October and the gentleman I purchased it from included the Hornady dies. They are excellent and produce every concentric ammunition using Hornady brass.

Why Hornady doesn't have these dies in general circulation is beyond me, mine are marked 450/400 and have the same SKU# as listed on their website.

For reduced loads I like to use Hogdon Trail Boss powder and a .410 400gr cast lead bullet; with 28gr of Trail Boss these bullets hit the same POA at 50 yards as my full-house load, which is a 400gr Woodleigh over 79gr of H4831.

Caliber is the least of the reasons to chose a 450/400 in the Ruger #1. The main reason is handling. The 458 Lott/Win #1's are terrifically muzzle heavy, and really do need additional weight in the butt in order to shift the balance rearward. My 450/400, on the other hand, balances 1.5" ahead of the lever pin, the only alteration being the 1" Pachmayr decelerator I installed to replace the factory recoil pad.

Oregon45: You're killing me with that .450-400 of yours. If I could sell a kidney ...
By the way, I had wonderful luck with XMP5744 and cast bullets in a Ruger No. 1 in .416 Rigby, but that was before Trail Boss came along.

Oregon45, thanks for the info! When I get mine, I'm going to slug the barrel. Curious if you can use .411 bullets in a .410 dia. barrel.

Where is a good source of reloading info for the 450/400 3"?

Mad Dog

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Oregon45, thanks for the info! When I get mine, I'm going to slug the barrel. Curious if you can use .411 bullets in a .410 dia. barrel.

Where is a good source of reloading info for the 450/400 3"?

Mad Dog

Barnes recommends the 411 TSX for the 450/400, but I haven't seen any load data. Luckily woodleigh has 410's and 411's.

John

I am a big .458 Win Mag fan. With that said, the 450/400 case has a rim (flange) specifically designed for double or single shot rifles as opposed the the bolt action rebated rim of the .458. I'd opt for the 450/400 in the No.1.

Mad Dog,

What did you decide? I'm watching this thread with interest . . .

Well, I found a 450/400, and I am sending the check today. Hope to have it in my posession, by late next week. Will post more when I have it in my hot little hands!

Mad Dog

Mad Dog: All I can say is WELL DONE! Please do post when your .450/400 arrives. I can't wait, either.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Oregon45, thanks for the info! When I get mine, I'm going to slug the barrel. Curious if you can use .411 bullets in a .410 dia. barrel.

Where is a good source of reloading info for the 450/400 3"?

Mad Dog

Barnes recommends the 411 TSX for the 450/400, but I haven't seen any load data. Luckily woodleigh has 410's and 411's.

John

.

.
.
. The Barnes Blue Book , # 3 has reloading data for the 450-400 . I think you will really enjoy the rifle .... Tho I like the weight of the 458's barrel . The 400 is really cool ... And , tho plenty here will root and beller about this , being a single shot you can load it all over the spectrum , for all kinds of hunting .......

. For Alaska , I would load the 300 gr TSX @ 2600 fps and go ahead on er , Would load 210 gr pistol bullets to 1500 fps for around the house , squirells and coyotes ect ..

Mad Dog: I got my H4831 load from Graem Wright's book "Shooting the English Double Rifle" and I found my Trail Boss load by working up from a load posted on another forum by a gentleman who also has a #1 450/400.

One must read article for loading Trail Boss was published in, I believe, the Winter 2009 issue of The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal, by Sherman Bell. I found it useful in working up my load.

I haven't loaded much for this rifle simply because my two loads allow me to do everything I want to do. They hit to POA and all I have to do is run a boresnake through the barrel when switching between cast and jacketed loads. I use the factory open sights, as they came from the factory, and they were sighted in for a 400gr bullet at around 2000fps, which is what my H4831 load produces. I could go higher, but that isn't why I bought this gun. If I can't get it done with a 400/2000 load then I'll move up to a 500/2200 load in my 458 Lott.

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
. The Barnes Blue Book , # 3 has reloading data for the 450-400 . I think you will really enjoy the rifle .... Tho I like the weight of the 458's barrel . The 400 is really cool ... And , tho plenty here will root and beller about this , being a single shot you can load it all over the spectrum , for all kinds of hunting .......

. For Alaska , I would load the 300 gr TSX @ 2600 fps and go ahead on er , Would load 210 gr pistol bullets to 1500 fps for around the house , squirells and coyotes ect ..

Does the #3 list both the TSX and the solid #4 only has the solid.

John

The # 3 has the Blue bullets .. I think that is why they had the book be blue The TSX hadn,t been released yet ..... Mike and Gerard were the only ones sharp enough to make driving band , or grooved bullets ... . Lets see if I get a chewin for that one ...

Ok, I have the blue book around here some place, XLC bullets have all but disappeared with the reception of the TSX.

On a side note, the Mrs. got her 450/400 and is all happy! I will probably load up some woodleighs and send her looking for squirrels. I did tell her I was going to videotape the endeavor and she had to utter the classic line, "Be very Quiet, its wabbit season heheheh!"

John

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Getting ready to buy one of the 2 in a Ruger No. 1. Trying to rate the pluses/minuses of both.

My heart says the 450/400 NE would be really cool.

Mad Dog

I say go with your heart.... who says you need to be practical in the matter of all things gun?

Michelle

You know... one of these day's I'll actually read the whole thread before replying....


Michelle