The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Factory 505 Gibbs, Montana DGR or CZ 550Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
I'm contemplating getting a 505 Gibbs in a year or so. So I'm looking at my options. I know I could go for a custom, but I don't know if I want to put that much money into my first serious big bore until I know I can handle it (I know of none that I can borrow or test fire in my home province of Nova Scotia, Canada). I like the idea of the CZ as I could send it to AHR for upgrades if I want to. But what about other options ? It's not the caliber of the rifle that matters - It's the caliber of the man behind it. | ||
|
One of Us |
What price range do you want to fall within? (in what currency?) D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'd like to keep it at $3500 US or below. Realistically right now my purpose is to learn to shoot a heavy recoiling rifle well, not to hunt dangerous game with it, so I want to be reasonable with the cost. It'll be about 10 years before I'll be at a point in my career where dangerous game hunting will be in my budget, and by that time I should be able to afford a custom bolt gun or a double if I want one. Right now I'd like to get a serviceable and reliable rifle now to build up good shooting habits and learn to handle heavy recoil. It's not the caliber of the rifle that matters - It's the caliber of the man behind it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
So far the Montana has the most votes but no one is saying why. Why you prefer one rifle over the other is the important part, my goal here is to learn the pluses and minuses of each so I can make an informed decision. I am relying on advice from others as I have been unable to locate one within a 500 miles of where I live, so I can not handle them and judge for myself. It's not the caliber of the rifle that matters - It's the caliber of the man behind it. | |||
|
| one of us |
IMO,what you want to learn is how to mentally deal with recoil under many conditions.I would ask myself if the 505 needs to be the cartridge to serve this purpose.There are other cartridges that could work well in accomplishing this-some available in rifles that are more affordable like a Win mod 70 458WM.The Ruger Lott was another option.The only time that I would seek out a 50 caliber rifle is if I wanted to hunt with it and if I did I would be looking at a fair priced double rifle that gives a quick second shot. | |||
|
One of Us |
The CZ will give you a good working platform for when you want to fine tune it. BUT start with bedding. | |||
|
| one of us |
Bedding is alot of times bullshit. I have had alot of rifles that shot better without any bedding.Just tighten them down the way they should be and everything will set in place. Both my CZ`s did not need any bedding. | |||
|
| one of us |
Canadaboy, It is not even a close call now that either the MRC PH action (CM or stainless even) or completed rifle is available in .505 Gibbs. If the MRC PH has a bolt diameter of .805" and the CZ has a bolt diameter of .700" and you are fitting a .642" rim into that bolt face ... Here are those pictures again: CZ .505 Gibbs boltface:  MRC PH Boltface, this one is for .416 Rigby belonging to member Mingbogo, but you can imagineer the Gibbs boltface onto this (I'll post a picture of the Gibbs boltface when I get one in hand in about a week):  Regarding completed rifles for sale by both makers: Besides the action, the rest is a matter of tuning up either one to your tastes. I would be money ahead with the MRC instead of the CZ, by the time I got them tuned to taste. A biggy is the better safety and trigger on the MRC, besides being proper size bolt diameter for the cartridge! The rest is just "detailing." CZ USA has sold rifles made with MRC actions before, short-mags and such, WSM etc. Their current .505 Gibbs uses a McGowen barrel from Montana, and a walnut stock from Missouri. They would be well advised to start building their .505 Gibbs on an MRC action, if only MRC would allow it. But they are competitors in the .505 Gibbs market ... I do see the CZ .505 Gibbs as having more stunt potential now as it can be made a little lighter in completed rifle. I want to see if I can make an MRC PH action fit into a CZ Kevlar stock. Box hanging down.  | |||
|
| One of Us |
When it come to big bore accuracy I would agree with you BUT when it comes to the stock splitting in your hands, well now that a totally different kettle of fish. | |||
|
| one of us |
I would be very careful about agreeing with shootaway on anything. Certainly ozhunter is right about proper bedding preventing stock splitting on a big bore. But it also improves accuracy, always. But shootaway would be hard pressed to detect that difference, as he usually just "patterns" his rifle like a shotgun. I now start off with full contact bedding of any rifle, including the barrel out to the forend tip. It is easy to free float a barrel later with some sand paper, if needed, and it usually isn't needed. The only way I would try the shootaway technique of letting the rifle smash its way into a bedding "set" is if there is a full metal bedding block in the stock. That is hit or miss on accuracy too, however, and my last attempt at that ended in bedding the rifle full contact throughout, It cut the group size in half, with a fat big bore barrel. So the next one with full aluminum bedding block got the full contact bedding throughout, and since the barrel was skinnier on that one, some up-pressure at forend tip too. Worked great. | |||
|
| one of us |
Rifles of today come with a very good stock to action fit.They have CNC equipment and I have not seen a modern factory rifle with a bad action to stock fit.There are chances of screwing things up with bedding too.If there is a little movement of the action in the stock just put a little glassbed in the recoil lug recess-fill it halfway.What must be done on a big bore stock is to LOCK the front action screw.There is a technical term for this that I cannot recall.You can also torque it down to the right level and use red loctite to lock it.Only this will prevent the stock from cracking if there is some play,IMO. The very best custom rifles do not have any bedding. RIP,you are not a rifle shooter just a cartridge historian or something like that.That is why your big bore stocks crack-you must know what you are doing. | |||
|
| One of Us |
 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I hunted with Kevin Robertson a few years ago in Moz. He with a 505, me with a 458 Lott. His 505 in a Mauser action weighed a bit less than my 458. I can tell you that there was hell of a lot of difference in the recoil of the two. I suspect you could rather easily find a 458 Lott or Win you could sample before committing to buy a Gibbs. Might save you some grief. | |||
|
| one of us |
Cross L, Thanks for un-ignoring shootaway for me on that one, I might have missed it.  shootaway: I started "shooting" 50 years ago. When I was 17 years old I scored 299 out of 300 on a US Army rifle qualification course out to 300 meters. I think I shot the center out of the 300-meter target so that the 300th shot did not score. I am primarily a rifleman, and you do not know your ass from your elbow regarding rifles.   | |||
|
| one of us |
What did I say about those mentioning Army and shooting while they were in the Army? It is a sign that they cannot shoot! | |||
|
One of Us |
Canadaboy: The 505 Gibbs is a wonderful cartridge. I prefer the 500 Jeffery which is what I have. However, if I were building a 50 caliber rifle today, I wouldn't give either a second look. I would build Jeff Smith's 500 AccRel. It's much more efficient and it fits into a 30/06 length action and thus, it makes up into a much lighter, more portable rifle. The 505 Gibbs is a huge cartridge. It's hard to get it to feed correctly and to get it to work properly, it takes a great deal of powder so it generates plenty of recoil. I think many guys gravitate to the Gibbs because they are enamored with that huge case but IMHO the 500 AccRel is just a better cartridge in every way. Just my two cents. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
|
| one of us |
Shitsthisway, there is a techinical term for you too. It rhymes with "mucking foron"... | |||
|
one of us |
NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
|
One of Us |
Just a few points to cut to the chase. RIP is 100% right about the .8" bolt being better for the Gibbs. As for bedding and CZ's, both of my last two 416Rigby's needed bedding. I do not know whether it is that 'L' piece for the barrel lug, or what, but they needed bedding to prevent shifting and point-of-aim change. Finally, Dave's advice is 100% right on, and Fla3006. The 500 AccRel provides exactly what you are looking for and it can be built very inexpensively on an Ruger controlled action feed. The capacity of the 500 AccRel will allow you to handload to energies beyond factory 505Gibbs. That should be plenty. Factory brass is available at Quality. It is basically a 416Rigby case that has been cut back to 2.65" to fit within a standard action, and uses the more common .510" bullets. Aim for the light side on the build (<10lb. scoped), you can always add weight if you must, but you might like it so much that you start carrying it around a forest looking for a bear or moose. Wouldn't it be nice if Ruger+Hornady adopted the cartridge and gave people a factory, common-priced, 500, something to seriously challenge the 458s? Well, until then we can build our own. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
|
One of Us |
Sure as long as they don't put Hornady bullets in the cartridges ...  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
|
| One of Us |
 | |||
|
| One of Us |
I think it's best to ignore some folks here, not to answer them, not to quote them, not to refer to them nor paraphrase their words. If we totally disregard these "characters" we can't loose. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Gotta tell ya, I think a real stroke o' genius was shown off by jeffeoso with his 2.65 inch 550 Express. http://ammoguide.com/?catid=738 I mean try to beat that one for killing anything anywhere under any conditions. MRC PH action for that baby as long as we're talkin'. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
|
One of Us |
+1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Factory 505 Gibbs, Montana DGR or CZ 550
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia