WELL...I thought you might like to see 50 yard bench taget.

While not the tightest group..I am happy.

I am having trouble seeing front sight...any thought from any other "old timers" at AR.

Groupes are marked Right and left also in what order they were shot.

Thanks for the help.

URDUBOB

After viewing that target you should do one of two things. . .

1. Send that rifle to me, I think you need a better one.

2. Make sure your passport and vaccinations are up to date, and start planning that safari!

Looking good!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Excellent!! What load are you shooting? Have you tried solids yet. And please try some 300gr. Hawks to test out the 75% rule.
I agree with Rusty.... Contact your travel agent.

LOAD WAS 65.4 GRAINS OF R-15 400 GRAIN WOODLIEGH SOFT. LOOK OUT BUFF HERE I COME!

THAT WAS LAST LOAD............. FIRST WAS 59 GRAINS, NEXT WAS 63.5. I HAVE THOSE TARGETS

THOSE WORKED........... SO I WENT FOR THE FULL MONTY.(NEAR FACTORY LOADS)

[ 02-26-2003, 02:08: Message edited by: urdubob ]

2.5" max spread for six shots, I agree with Rusty, but you should send it to me, Rusty doesn't like double rifles, he's a 45-70 Marlin man!

Let me ask you are you useing any filler? If not try enough Dakron fiberfill to hold the powder tightly against the primer. The filler should be slightly compressed when the bullet is seated! There is nothing wrong with the group you got, but the filler may make it even tighter, by more consistant ignition. You got a jewel! Want me to go along and back you?

Bob,
As I recall, your gun was a 60 Cordite gun and not a black powder gun, and I think you need to up your loads considerably as you are running about 1730 FPS according to my chronographed loads with that same load and that is why your group is low....

My Jefferys standard load with RL-15 and a 400 gr. bullet is 71.5 with a soft and 70.5 with a solid in a 3" gun for 2160 FPS, so apparantly you have a ways to go for a true DGR.....

I am comparing a 3" gun to a 3'1/4" gun, but you should get less pressure in a longer case I think.

Your barrels are on the verge of crossing, but close enough!!!

As the velocity increases, the right POI comes down and to the left, and the left POI comes down and to the right.

At "crossing velocity" the right barrel and left barrel have the same POI.

You need to chronograph and know your velocities as well, for safety sake with a fine old gun.

That is a darn fine group as it is. The four-shot composite is just over 1.5" at 50 yards, by my eyeball (throwing out R3 and L3, as the barrels were warmed up). I would sure be happy with that!

Increasing the velocity will make the barrels shoot lower on the target. If they shoot into one hole at 50 yards, then it might be worth adjusting the sight height.

Think barrel time of the bullet. A slower bullet will be thrown higher as the barrels rear up further before the bullet exits.

Of course if you are bench resting the gun and holding it down tightly, that could account for for a low POI despite not being up to the necessary velocity for which the rifle is regulated.

Also, technique such as "fine bead" or "combat bead" will affect the elevation of POI. The rifle may have been regulated to shoot to the center of the bead and you are aiming with a fine bead at top edge of the bead? Could make a difference in getting the rifle to hit spot on with the proper velocity load. You are definitely getting there.

That is a good group, but if the velocity is only in the 1700's as Ray suggested... ???

No, raising the velocity will not raise the POI in this case! I found that out with a .454 Casull revolver, long ago.

Mac and Ray have taught us this before. Ray had a brain fart. I have them too. Sometimes I think Finland and Norway are interchangeable.

[ 02-26-2003, 05:11: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

MAC! As I remember you wanted to borrow my Marlin for your next safari?

Mac is right about the Dacron filler. By holding the RL-15 against the primer you will be amazed at the consisitancy of your velocities. It works and narrows your FPS spread. I use approx. a 1.5ish grain tuft. The tuft will not be consumed in firing, rather spat out the bore!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

[ 02-26-2003, 05:23: Message edited by: Rusty ]

Dagga,
Maybe, maybe not, he must try it and see..something is amiss if his gun is regulated with 65.5 grs. of RL-15 as that is 1730 FPS in my gun, now that may also mean that his gun is in fact a black powder gun or was, but I thought everyone agreed it was a smokeless gun...so something is missing...I would try and see, not guess at the viberations of any barrel....He has to go someplace with it and down is not it and where he is in not it either.

Urdubob:

Ray may have a point, the load does sound light. With a previous batch of RL 15 my .450/.400 3" gave 400 grain Woodleigh softs 2100 fps (26" barrels) with 70.5 grains. The current batch gives 2125 fps with 69 grains. What did the bores slug and what diameter Woodleighs are you using? Did you shoot over a chronograph? What velocity did you get?

When you develop for the Woodleigh solid, back off a couple of grains from the soft point load to start with. Glad to hear you're having better luck with the .400 than you did with the .450.
---------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I was using the .411 woodlieghs...I also used some dacron filler to hold down powder the slower loads were a bigger spread. I will post pic in few min.

urdubob

[ 02-26-2003, 21:05: Message edited by: urdubob ]

I just loaded 9 rounds with 70 grains R-15 with 400 soft.
Ice storm today...... not many folks in office. Thursday is day off will try new load.

urdubob

Great,
Now you can help me shoot in my 465 Holland! I am tired of trying to shoot all of the different loads I have developed for this rifle!

Great group

David

Bob,
I wouldn't jump off head first with 70 grains all at once, I would work up to 70 or 71 one grain at a time...Be sure and weigh your filler also as that will run pressures up..I don't use filler in my 3" gun not needed, but a 3-1/4" gun does need a filler...consistency is important in shooting the double rifle... Load a few more, say two of each from 66 to on up to 69 and try those first...Nice doubles need to be approached carefully as they are unlike bolt guns and have a tendency to react to the slightest amount of abuse, Thank God for ice storms!
Ray

Ray-Would his double regulate properly by using
RL-19 or some other slower powder that would fill case to 90% plus.Thus not needing filler.I know they will have safe pressures with right slower
powder, but would they regulate. Has anyone tried this.Ed.

Urdubob:

Ditto what Ray said - take it easy and come up a grain at a time......and SHOOT OVER A CHRONOGRAPH. Without it you're flying through that ice storm with no instruments and no radio!

Ray:

Bob's rifle IS a 3" gun. You can tell by the cartridge in the photo.
---------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

But wasn't it said to be 3-1/4" earlier? And the case does look longer than 3" in the photo, judging by the 1" blocks.

Right on about going up a grain at a time in this antique double!

Dagga:

I have 3" and 3 1/4" Kynochs here on my desk. The 3 1/4" has a much longer neck. Also the shoulder is more abrupt than that of the 3" which makes the neck look even longer. The cartridge in the photos is a 3". The original thread on this rifle was posted over on the African forum and he mentioned that it is a 3", not a 3 1/4"
------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

[ 02-28-2003, 10:52: Message edited by: 400 Nitro Express ]

400 Nitro Express,
3" it is.
Just another brain fart on my part, trying to defend Ray's second brain fart in this thread. Thanks for clearing the air!

BTW, I don't cut the geezers any slack, because I have achy joints and gray hair too. By the same token I expect to be corrected when I go astray. Thank you. Now I will go and see if I can still write my name in the snow, and arc the stream over yonder fence post.

But wait! Your correction of Ray was a brain fart on your own part, 400 Nitro Express, which led to my brain fart.

Ray did not say, in his latest statement, that it was a 3-1/4", he just said that "a" 3-1/4" would need a filler though the 3" did not, in a generic, explanatory statement.

Well! Excuse me!

[ 02-28-2003, 11:29: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

You both are excused!

WTG 400 Nitro Express!