TYE has started to load for his LOTT and was wanting to get the 'scoop' on bullets that worked well in actual BUFF shootings.

He has tried Barnes and is getting too much compression to add more powder to get up to velocity.

We have seen JJ's post on the Swift A-Frames. What else is working and short enough to load in the LOTT.

He would like to stay away from the Speer Tungston bullets if he can find a good alternative.

Thanks for your time in responding.
Regards,
Sam Clemmons

eclemmons@hotmail.com

Sam,

You can check some results of the 400 and 450 grain GS bullets from a .458 Lott on the GS web site:

http://gunlinks.zibycom.com/members/002245268/Site2/carl.html

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Sam, While I have some thoughs fresh in my mind I will post what I have so far on this project rifle, along with some past Buffalo experiences.

In the last week and a half I have found some interesting things about loading for the Lott. First the 450 Aframe fits perfectly with a full load of powder, whether it's RL-15 or H4985. Both fill the case to the depth needed to fully seat the bullet without compressing the powder. I have used 85 grains of each power and I get 2250fps with both powders. I have used 87 grains of powder with the RL15 and the 450's which also fits the case easily and I get 2290fps at 40 deg temps. That will easily exceed 2300 on a typical warm African day. I do not think I will get 2300 easily from the 22" barreled Lott with 500 grain bullets. I don't really care if I can get 2300, as 2200 is plenty, its low pressure and comfortable to shoot.

I don't get enough difference in velocity dropping down to the 450 grain bullet weight to see a practical advantage in using it over a 500 grain bullet. The 500 grain bullet also carries the energy and velocity as well down range.

The recoil level is interesting. When I load using less powder such as RL-7 and get the equal velocity when using the greater powder amount for the same bullet weight and the same speed, the recoil is in fact greater when more powder is used. Even though the velocity is the same. The powder charge has a direct impact on recoil.

My rifle is not a hunting rifle so I have a bit different "zero" situation. Mine is zeroed for 75 yards. This puts it 1/2" high at 50 yards, 1/2" low at 100 yards, 3" low at 125 yards and 8" low at 150 yards. That's just about a point and shoot deal from point blank to 130-140 yards out. It cannot get much better then that for my work. It also has more velocity at 80 yards with a 500 grain bullet then the 458 Win Mag at the muzzle!

As far as buffalo shot, the majority of buffalo I have seen shot were with a 375HH. The others have been a mixture of guns and most have not had the bullets recovered for one reason or another. The Lott has been used in limited shooting because it's only a backup and then I was using a borrowed Lott which was loaded with 425 grain hard cast bullets going 2200-2300fps. That is a very light load by American hunters standards. It is what a fair amount of PH's use though.

I also prefer to see clients shoot softs only. I have not seen 100's of buffalo killed yet in my carrer but many of those I have seen shot would have been passed if the client had solids. They cannot be used unless the area behind the bull is 100% free and clear of any other buffalo. Softs will exit on occasion but with a solid hit into the bone mass of a bull it's not common. They also do not exit on raking, quartering, or going away shots.

A PH has good use for the solid because he will only be shooting as insurance. I don't use solids when working a plains game hunt. should the need arise for the shot from my rifle on a plains game hunt the softs kill and knock down game much better in my opinion. I know that theory may not be popular with some other posters. They may have similiar experience but I know what I have seen and I continue to grow in this business and learn each year.

I see a real need for solids in some situations but for the most part the softs are working for me. I suppose the majority of PH's I work with are using hardcast bullets and they are much like solids. They are also much lighter in weight then the softs I shoot.

I guess it comes to this experience. I have seen big game shot with solids from the 458 Lott that gave no indication of a hit. The bullets just wizzed through like lightning. When I have seen the same kind of shots with a 450-500 grain soft point the animal is no longer standing upon impact much of the time. Sure a big animal like Giraffe and Buffalo will turn and run with a chest shot but they fall real soon. With the Solids they run a long long way some of the time.

Anyhow regarding the bullet choice. The swift 450's & 500's, The hornady 500's and the Woodleigh 500's all shoot to the same POI for me out of my rifle out to 125 yard(furthest checked) I have been shooting them all about 2225fps There is no compressed powder and the loads are easy on the brass, the gun and me.

I have a 22" barrel. I have shot a limited number of Barnes X and cannot comment yet. They do compress the powder in the loads I have been using. Accuracy is the same as the others. The compressed powder bugs me though. jj

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

Sam,

As a point of curiosity, why the wish to avoid the GST? It one of the best solids available.

Steve

JJACK,
Many thanks for the reply.

STEVE,
We shoot alot and TYE didn't want to go with the most expensive bullet if another would do as well.

Further comments are welcome.

SAM

Why afraid of compressing powder? A compression of 5 to 10 % of length ( 3 to 6 mm of the 60 mm powder column of the LOTT) improves powder burning, fixes the bullet against recoil and may also have positive effect on ignition.
I use 88 to 90 gr of VV N540 behind 500 gr Hornadys and Woodleighs since 10 years in africa with no problems.

Norbert,
The problem with the powder compression was that he was at a full case and only at 2150 fps.
I'll have him look at this powder. What velocities are you getting with it?

Thanks for the reply.
SAM

The only thing I have shot on game are the Speer AGS Tungsten Solids, but the Hornady solids are the equal on targets in my rifle. So, practice with the Hornady bullets and hunt with the Speers.

L-n-B:

I agree. The Hornady's are cheap. So why not use them for practice?

JJHack:

My Lott went from 2400 fps to 2250 when cutting back the CZ from 25" to 22". It was 50 fps/inch in my case, not the rule of thumb of 25 fps/in.

Even at 2250 fps it is still a stomper. You are a better man than I if you can shoot that thing from the bench "comfortably."

Norbert:

I am a novice about reloading, but I don't see the big concern about compressed loads either. They shoot consistently and if you crimp the bullet, the bullet isn't going to wiggle out; at least none of mine have.

I have yet to try N540 as the IMR4320 has been okay. And quit hogging those cows.

Will

>I use 88 to 90 gr of VV N540 behind 500 gr Hornadys and Woodleighs since 10 years in africa with no problems.

2380 f/s from a 25.5" barrel, pressure tested.

Will, what kind of velocity accelerator did you have in the last three inches of that barrel? Holy smokes that's a huge velocity loss in three inches! 150fps is a devistating loss from a rifle in that speed range! I'm glad I started with 22" because if I lost that much from a gun I cut I would be heartbroken.

My friend Duncan cut his 375HH from 24" to 22" and increased his powder just a little bit. His rifle was within 25fps even being cut 2" less. He then cut it back to 20" and it was about 100fps less then the 24" barrel. Not satisfied with it's length he cut it furter yet to 18" and ended up 150fps less then the 24" length. That was 6" and 150fps lost. That is the typical 25fps per inch.

He is about 5'6" and works as a brown bear guide in SE AK. The gun needs to swing through the bush in the jungle there. With his vertical handicap he wanted it short to make it easier to handle. It's a funny looking rifle and has enormous muzzle flash now. One of the other guides we worked with there called it the flame thrower.

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

[This message has been edited by JJHACK (edited 04-16-2002).]

bogo[QUOTE]Originally posted by BIG SAM:
Hi BIG SAM,
The Lott velocities are perfect for good bullet performance with the Hornady's both soft and solid. They are not just practice bullets but very good performers in hunting conditions. Your friend should practice and use them if he shoots lots and doesn't want to go to great expense. The top grade bullets are most usefull when your pushing the limits of standard bullets such as the Hornady's.The Swift A-Frame is an exceptional bullet that I would trust under any condition. On a straight on chest shot at a Cape Buffalo the 500 grain .475 Swift penetrated to the hind quarters and mushroomed out to .880. The shot was at 60 yards and the initial velocity was 2500 fps from my 470 Mbogo. With soft point bullet performance like that you would have to sit me down and explain what a solid from a 600 Nitro is doing that is better as far as hole size and penetration.

470 Mbogo