One of the first guns I ever shot was a 300 weatherby. I was at this range in Dallas, TX and had this 85 year-old "range master" standing over me "helping" me sight in my rifle. The first shot cut me good and dazed me bad. I was so embarrassed that I pretended nothing happened. I was actually willing to take another bang in order to save some face, but fortunately the old guy saw the blood pouring down my eye first. Everyone at the range clapped for me has I walked into the shop to be doctored up.

I have since added another 3/4 of an inch to the rifle and it fits fine now. The greatest recoil I have experienced is shooting a model 70 458 Lott off the bench, but I shot it open sighted. I wouldn't dare add a scope to that.

I've read how some of you guys scope your 500 Jefferys and your 505 Gibbs etc., etc.. I'm humble enough to ask how the hell you do it. What did I do wrong to get knocked so badly (still have the scar).

I'll also add that I've shot 416's 470's and 458's, but never have I shot something as uncomfortable as that vangaurd submoa synthetic 300 weatherby. Although, my grandad's old 30/30 winchester with a steel butt isn't too fun to shoot either.

Thanks for the input guys.

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh:
One of the first guns I ever shot was a 300 weatherby. I was at this range in Dallas, TX and had this 85 year-old "range master" standing over me "helping" me sight in my rifle. The first shot cut me good and dazed me bad. I was so embarrassed that I pretended nothing happened. I was actually willing to take another bang in order to save some face, but fortunately the old guy saw the blood pouring down my eye first. Everyone at the range clapped for me has I walked into the shop to be doctored up.

I have since added another 3/4 of an inch to the rifle and it fits fine now. The greatest recoil I have experienced is shooting a model 70 458 Lott off the bench, but I shot it open sighted. I wouldn't dare add a scope to that.

I've read how some of you guys scope your 500 Jefferys and your 505 Gibbs etc., etc.. I'm humble enough to ask how the hell you do it. What did I do wrong to get knocked so badly (still have the scar).

I'll also add that I've shot 416's 470's and 458's, but never have I shot something as uncomfortable as that vangaurd submoa synthetic 300 weatherby. Although, my grandad's old 30/30 winchester with a steel butt isn't too fun to shoot either.

Thanks for the input guys.

What year was that??

It had to be a Winchester Public Shooting Range, and the Range Master must have been Charlie Reed???

I think it was in northwest Dallas maybe just off of 35. It would have been around 2006 or 2007. You know the guy? Probably remembers the incident, unless it so frequently it doesn't stand out (jeez I hope so).

That said, I would prefer to focus on my question and not my idiocy... but please feel free to rub it in. I certainly deserve it.

maddenwh,

I have been down your path and hopefully can help you on your big bore journey!

Years ago I hated my Rem 700 300 Win w/ 2.5-8 Leup as it always hit my shooting glasses on recoil, and I thought it was because it was just a monster of a magnum and that was just the way it was.

I didn't know that my rifle did NOT have a proper LOP for me or that the scope was set back too far. I now am a bigger bore fanatic with a 338 Lapua as my deer and elk rifle and many 375s, 416s and 458s as my fun rifles!

First, getting scoped does no one any good...and IMO is avoidable. A proper LOP for your rifle and a long eye relief scope set up right is golden. I set up my rifles scopes as that I HAVE to creep a bit to see the full field at max mag. That way I know I have set my scopes a bit forward. Creeping and crawling the stock will still get you cut...but if you get cut you haven't been paying attention.

My RSM 458 Lott has a Leup 1.5-5 and is my ground squirrel vaulter big time. I love being able to put a 405gr at 2400fps into a "small taget." I shoot the rifle with a firm hand to be sure. I don't worry about getting scoped because I know I have done my part!


If one wants to shoot a big bore well he will. It is only the choice of the shooter.

John

quote:

Originally posted by JKS:
maddenwh,

I have been down your path and hopefully can help you on your big bore journey!

Years ago I hated my Rem 700 300 Win w/ 2.5-8 Leup as it always hit my shooting glasses on recoil, and I thought it was because it was just a monster of a magnum and that was just the way it was.

I didn't know that my rifle did NOT have a proper LOP for me or that the scope was set back too far. I now am a bigger bore fanatic with a 338 Lapua as my deer and elk rifle and many 375s, 416s and 458s as my fun rifles!

First, getting scoped does no one any good...and IMO is avoidedable. A proper LOP for your rifle and a long eye relief scope set up right is golden. I set up my rifles scopes as that I HAVE to creep a bit to see the full field at max mag. That way I know I have set my scopes a bit back. Creeping and crawling the stock will still get you cut...but if you get cut you haven't been paying attention.

My RSM 458 Lott has a Leup 1.5-5 and is my ground squirrel vaulter big time. I love being able to put a 405gr at 2400fps into a "small taget." I shoot the rifle with a firm hand to be sure. I don't worry about getting scoped because I know I have done my part!


If one wants to shoot a big bore well he will. It is only the choice of the shooter.

John

All great advice, and that's essentially what I dead... adding LOP. I'm not really that tall at only 6'2" or 6'3", but man I need at least 14.5 inches of LOP. I hate adding spacers to all my guns, but they just don't fit right unless I do.

That said, I'd still be hesitant about shooting a 458 off the bench with a scope unless I knew it fit perfectly. I actually owned a chapuis sxs 470 for a while, but I had to sell it b/c it was way too short (eventually found a heym that fit me). It really knocked the hell out of me a lot worse than my Heym 470, which was significantly lighter if I remember. It was fitted for a tall guy, and just fit me better.

Is there any advice regarding placement of the chin etc. that might be beneficial... just curious.

thanks fellas.

I've had the same issues with LOP, mine being 14.25 inches on a straight bolt and 15.25 on a DR. Once I started shooting rifles that fit me no more scope bites and pleasant shooting with big bores. I don't have any big bores with scopes over 375 and would not scope anything over 416.

I would love to be able to shoot only open sight with my 505 Gibbs, but my eyesight is no longer good enough. I can shoot, but only if I have plenty of time to find the sights and shift my focus. Trying to shoot fast is a recipe for poor shooting. So I need a scope. I have a 1.5 x 5 VX3 Leupold, which has one of the largest eye relief measurements. I also have the right LOP, and I make sure I hold the rifle correctly (ie firm). Having said that I have been cut 4 times. Once by a freinds 458 Win Mag, and twice by my own 338 Win Mag, and once many years ago by a freinds 375 H&H (never by the 505). In all those cases I got careless, or made a hurried shot and didn't hold the rifle firm enough. If you make sure you have a long eye relief scope, the right LOP for your size and hold the rifle correctly, you shouldnt have a problem.

maddenwh,
As tall as you are, you may need more than 14.5" LOP on a bolt rifle.
That is my LOP though I am only 5'11", with a 6'1" armspread, however.

I always use a slip-on pad on the factory stocks,
custom stocks get proper LOP.
My Merkel DR with 14.5" LOP (to front trigger) also gets a leather slip-on pad, for something over 15", and no-snag quick mounting to shoulder.

I have shot everything up to 577 Trex with a scope, and the 12GaFH beyond that, which is capable of more recoil.

In hard kickers, I always make sure the objective bell of the scope does not come back any further than the back of the trigger guard.
If the setup will not allow that, then a different scope and rings combo is needed.

I long since learned to deal with not getting the entire field of view in the scope.
This also minimizes the tendency to parallax error and makes for better accuracy.
And it is better than a scout scope!
A scout scope is a cinch for avoiding forehead trauma.

Do not crawl the stock.
Keep head upright yet cheek firmly anchored on stock.
A fat face helps, and proper stock fit for whatever face you have.

You will go with the flow on recoil, with your entire upper body, head, and neck.
Recoil is slowed in velocity and diminished in amplitude by becoming one with the rifle.

Add your body weight to the rifle weight.
Both hands grip tightly, except for trigger finger.
Shoulder, chest, pectoral muscles are bunched up and isometrically tensed for the recoil.
They form a firm pocket for the butt of the rifle to be snugged into tightly.
Pushups to build up the pecs are a good idea.

I got barely touched by a .416 Rigby onetime, from getting too loose and relaxed shooting offhand.

It never happened again, but I have "doctored"
several shooters who were laid open to the bone.
One was done with a 30-30 Marlin and a scope with a sharp ocular bell rim, cut a half-circle to the frontal bone, bled a lot. Even my stitches were a cosmetic improvement.
He must have had the scope almost touching his forehead before he pulled the trigger.

Jim Shockey likes showing off his bloodied forehead on the TV show credits.
Some famous PHs wear their cookie-cutter scars proudly.

Best sight-in and load development method I've used is to set up a Lead Sled, but with just 2 bags of shot in it. Too much resistance to recoil can split a stock. I then place one bag against the back of the Sled, between my shoulder and the rest. Make sure you hold on to the stock (not the barrel) when you shoot, as a rifle can jump when it meets resistance to rearward recoil. Works great...460 Wby, 458 Lott, 500NE, 378 Wby.

One of the biggest mistakes I see is people spending thousands of dollars on a rifle, then cheaping out on a scope. Cheap scopes have short eye relief nine times out of ten. Not only should you get a good scope, but check the eye relief both on low and high power if it is a variable. I use Leupolds on my heavy kickers and have yet to be touched by one. Get the length of pull correct, then set the scope up with it on its highest power and move it as far forward as you can and still get a good sight picture. If you do that on low power, on high power it may be too far forward and you will crawl the stock, crawl the stock and you get kissed because you put yourself in an awkward shooting position.

Pretty much as Rip pointed out
--correct fit of weapon, correct eye-relief of scope, correct hold(mounting) of weapon.

So far (knock on wood) I have yet to be cut in nearly 50 years of shooting scoped rifles, got bumped once or twice shooting a weapon someone else had "set-up" ,still if I had taken time to assess, I probably could have avoided those.

Actually have had more of an issue with finger injury and cuts on my hands from the really "nasty" recoiling weapons. (I Like gloves a lot more as I age)

Stock design and fit significantly effect recoil management in the heavy stuff.
The A-Sqaure stocks truly work, (hideous, but functional), I personally find original Weatherby stocks uncomfortable in the biggies.
Again fit and preference.

If you are about to shoot a gun new to you take a few minutes to assess and adapt.

If you are outfitting a "big" recoiling beasty make sure you get durable optics of extended eye relief.

I shoot lots of big stuff with scopes on occasion. You've gotten good advice. Get a good scope with as much eye relief as possible. Remember YOU REALLY WILL NEVER NEED MORE THAN 4X on a hunting gun out to 400yrds, so dont fall into the big scope makes you a better shot BS. My 12GaFH NEF wears a 2.5X leupold compact and it generates 8000ft-lbs of recoil. Also remember those high pressure cartridges like the 300WBy and 300 RUM generate a fast recoil pulse that easily causes scopecuts as its harder to deal with. LOP is important, but more important is learning how to use your arms like pistons to resist the recoil and not ever creeping the scock. Scope wacks are bad as they can induce a flinch that will ruin your shooting for life. Dont let it happen.-Rob

One thing to add is that Weatherby stocks with the amount of drop from the bore line they have make for some wicked recoil from 30 cal. on up. A straight stock with less drop at the heel and of the correct length with the scope set forward far enough will not cut you if you follow Rob's advice. I have seen him shoot 8500 ft-lb loads from one of my guns and he knows how to do it.

All great advice. I use Leupold scopes for all my rifles and generally use 1.5x5sx scopes for big bore rifles.

It's also good to know I'm not the only one with a skunk eye.

I've never had too much trouble shooting anything other than my blasted weatherby, but I haven't had many issues since having it fitted appropriately.

Maybe RIP's advice was the best... I just need to do more push ups...

I think one thing that I often have trouble with is getting the butt of the stock in tightly enough and preparing for recoil, but still staying loose enough not to yank the trigger (i.e. a gentle squeeze upon exhale). I guess that's why we practice.

I found that firmly gripping the forend helps. Most bench shooters don't use there forward hand at all. Also, sit as vertical as possible when shooting. Get plenty of sandbags or whatever under the front and rear rests. The more you lean forward the greater the risk. Mount your scope to the absolute forward most position that is functional. I got my scars from a high magnification Simmons scope on a light 7MM mag. The first shot cut me and the second shot cut the newly placed bandage in half.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Remember YOU REALLY WILL NEVER NEED MORE THAN 4X on a hunting gun out to 400yrds, so dont fall into the big scope makes you a better shot BS.

Opinions vary.

We often see that people who is used to low magnification scopes, has problems with todays trend of higher magnification.

But if a person is used to higher magnification, going down to 4 or less, will very often open groups, even at 100 yards.

A Leopold 2-7 or 3-9 has the same eyerelief as the smaller ones, and IMO a better choise for a wider range of shooting.

I have never had a cut eye from a scope on a rifle. When I shoot a scoped rifle I always stay far enought back for that to happen.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:
I've had the same issues with LOP, mine being 14.25 inches on a straight bolt and 15.25 on a DR. Once I started shooting rifles that fit me no more scope bites and pleasant shooting with big bores. I don't have any big bores with scopes over 375 and would not scope anything over 416.

.
.
. . My 458 weighs 9 lbs scoped slung and loaded w/3 rounds ..I have a 12 15/16" lop . Never got ringed by it . . You are not supposed to flex like Gumbi when you shoot a rifle ...Now Dirk , I,m not saying you do at all ... I truly believe Clint was right .( a mans gotta know his limitations ) And I,m not too keen on shooting a 600 OK ...But you get some rifle stuck way out in front of you and hitting anything from off hand becomes real problemamatic ...... I think European scopes ,weak men , and tooooooooo Long butt stocks is why everyone can,t take a shot at an animal without shooting sticks ..My Word .. I,m glad that hasn,t invaded Alaska yet .......Just another mess of s___ for a beleaguered assistant guide to pack around .....Since there has been all the best advice already given , I will add what I know is the way to learn to shoot scoped big bores !

.. .
.
So Mad ; heres how you learn to shoot a scoped , or any other big bore ....... #1 Don,t go to the range .. Go buy a couple hundred kids party balloons . Handload a couple hundred rounds of 404 with a 400 gr bullet@ 2100 fps or there abouts .... Make sure the screws are tight on your rifle ... You live in tayhoss .drive out into the middle of nowhere ,where you can safely shoot . get out of your rig and start blowing up balloons, big ones 6-10"dia , samll ones ,2" dia and medium size ones 4" dia.. There will probably be brush of some sort around ,and it will probably be in the afternoon so there will prolly be a breeze blowing , so just toss them around .. About 20 will do ... ....The balloons will prolly fetch up any where from 20 feet to 200 yards away .... Do you have a culling belt for your ammo ...wear it .. DON,T PICK UP YOUR BRASS TILL YOU ARE DONE SHOOTING FOR THE DAY !!!!! gotta teach yourself not to look for brass when the shootin is supposed to be going on . . Standing and kneeling are the only 2 positions you need ...... If the rear of the eyepiece doesn,t protrude back any further than the rear of the bolt it will be impossible to get ringed , especially with such a mild load ....... COMMENCE FIRE ...

The nice thing about ballons is you immediatly know it you hit them ,and they are lighter than a gong .. Plus you need to breath some good country fresh air . You will need plenty blowing them up .................... Get out and shoot that big CZ of yours , you won,t wear it out and you will find out all it,s quirks and ways , and you will learn how to shoot .......... P.S. when cycling your action , pull the bolt back FAST , and ALL THE WAY TO THE STOP ,but don,t slap the hell out of it chambering a round ,just chamber the next round rapidly without trying to break anything ....

Oh ya .. do this a few times a month and pretty soon you will be able to hit about anything you want and enjoy the process ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Remember YOU REALLY WILL NEVER NEED MORE THAN 4X on a hunting gun out to 400yrds, so dont fall into the big scope makes you a better shot BS.

Opinions vary.

We often see that people who is used to low magnification scopes, has problems with todays trend of higher magnification.

But if a person is used to higher magnification, going down to 4 or less, will very often open groups, even at 100 yards.

A Leopold 2-7 or 3-9 has the same eyerelief as the smaller ones, and IMO a better choise for a wider range of shooting.

.
.
. But Bent . He is trying to learn to shoot a big bore rifle . .With a 2 1/2 x -4x scope the offhand groups arn,t going to open up ..

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:

. But Bent . He is trying to learn to shoot a big bore rifle . .With a 2 1/2 x -4x scope the offhand groups arn,t going to open up ..

But Gumboot. I just point out that a shooter who is used to high magnification tend to be less accurate about trigger-pull when going down in magnification. As a shooting instructer I have witnessed this many times. Likewise, when folks go from their old 4x to a new 12x they feel it is dancing all over the place.

But to say that 4x is all you EVER need out to 400 yards and ALL ELSE is BS, is pretty funny, to be kind about it.

When you say I'm trying to learn how to shoot a big bore rifle with a low variable scope, it would have to depend on your definition of a big bore. I've owned and shot two 416's with scopes. I simply wondered how some of you all manage to shoot 500 Jeffs, 505 gibbs, 600 OK's with scopes without getting popped (you guys get my respect for shooting those anyways. I'm 27 years old, 6'2" 200 lbs and a 458 Lott off the bench is enough fun for me i.e. my limit).

Only scope that ever popped me was on my 300 weatherby. It was pointed out to me that the Leopold 1.5x5x scopes have significantly more eye relief than the boone and crockett beast I have on my weatherby (which no longer stings now that I have increased the LOP). I said that I was hesitant to scope my Lott bc of my experience with the weatherby, but perhaps the relief and having a rifle fit appropriately would have solved that problem.Only reason I have a quasar spotter on my weatherby is bc it is my groundhog gun/ general plinker (more fun than a 22lr).

I did ask for general tips regarding form etc. while shooting scoped rifles bc I was curious what shooting a shoulder mounted howitzer with a scope required. I think having a gun that fits is really what works the best. That said, all advice given was great. My dad taught me to shoot a 243, not a 458 (I'll of course remedy this with my daughter, or son ).

Someone commented that they had not been banged because they had always stayed far enough back to avoid this. If you are so far back you can't see in the scope, what good does it do (i.e. I'm not totally incapable, the gun just didn't fit).

In terms of magnification... I've heard folks say that all you ever need is 4x and that military snipers only need 4x scopes. I will be the first to admit that I am no military sniper. I don't think I've ever needed more than ~6x for any elk or deer hunting that I have done, but, as they say, aim small miss small. The better I see, the smaller my misses are. I don't see all that well, as in, I'm not 20/20, so I've realized that I shoot better with scopes than open sights. I also shoot better with a 6x scope than a 4x scope. I suppose that everyone is different. My wife has better eyes than a peregrine falcon and can hit more with an open-sighted 22 at 100 yards than I can my 12 gauge... shame she's not into shooting cape buff like she is beer cans. My 404 will have QD mounts, best of both worlds.

All scopes shoved as far forward as possible:

500 Mbogo and 2.5X Leupold, as good as it gets for beauty of forehead:



.416 Rigby and 1.75X-6X E Leupold:



.375 Wby and 4x Leupold:



.375 H&H and 2.5X-8X Leupold:



.375 RUM and 1.5X-5X Leupold:



404 Jeffery and 1.5X-5x Leupold:



.375 Lapua and 2.5X-8X Leupold



.395 Ruger Max and 1.25X-4X Trijicon:



Ruger No.1s of various caliber up to 500 A-Square
and various scopes up to 4x-16X Sightron:





Note the use of slip-on pads to get a longer LOP on factory stocks.

Also note that the fixed power scopes have a shorter ocular bell that allows the scopes to be located farther forward.

Also note that I have used scout scopes on two of the Ruger No.1s, including the 450NE (stainless with 2.5x Leupold IER/Scout) and .416 Rigby (blue with matte black Burris 2.75X IER/Scout).
2.5x is fine for hunting deer-sized game out to 350 yards. Works for me.
A 2.5X Leupold should be along with any rifle as a pre-zeroed backup scope in case the primary goes TU.
I have one for the scout-scoped rifles too.
I like a scout scope in the Ruger No.1 position better than in a full forward scout position.
I think it reinforces anti-parallax aiming.
Accurate.

An extended pinky finger salute to the outrageously silver 450 NE with scout scope. I never got around to the laser sight for dim light at close range, still working on it:

Wow quite the collection, RIP. I'm jealous. 375-338 Lapua, interesting.

Thanks, Tyler. That is a small sample of my paltry collection of ugly rifles.
I am proud to say that there is not a single .425WR or 500 Jeffery in the bunch!


The .375/.338 Lapua Magnum has a fluted Dan Lilja barrel, inspired by Saeed's .375/404 barrel maker preference.

Here is the forend tip of the .375 Lapua Magnum, another way to do it besides a barrel mounted sling on a "big bore."
This does not destroy accuracy if the sling is actually used in shooting.
It also prevents index finger cuts on the off hand:

quote:

.395 Ruger Max and 1.25X-4X Trijicon:

How do you like that scope? I am considering that one or the 1-4x30mm version for a M70 416 RM if the ring spacing permits.

Charles,
It is a nice scope, surprisingly precisely aimable even with the old glowing-triangle-tipped post.
The "glowing duplex" might be preferrable.

I had to radius the front edge of the front Ruger ring with a Dremel tool to get that scope squeezed onto the Ruger without extension rings, stress free.

The M70 action is longer and you might have to resort to extension rings, unless the 30mm-tubed scope allows more tube length.

Here is a 50-yard 3-shot 1-hole group shot with that scope and rifle, and S&H bullets, initial zeroing and chronography:

Thanks for the input. The 30mm version has a straight tube and supposedly more room to mount. The closest I can get to the ideal reticle in their current offerings is the German #4 with lighted center dot.

The quoted eye relief is better on the 1" tube scope, but the 30mm says 3.20" constant relief on the 30mm.

Apologies for the hijack.

RIP=

Nice toys. I particularly fancy the 500 Mbogo and the 404 Jeff.

I've used sleeve pads before on older guns I didn't want to cut. Mayhaps I should put them to use on some of there younger brothers.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:

. But Bent . He is trying to learn to shoot a big bore rifle . .With a 2 1/2 x -4x scope the offhand groups arn,t going to open up ..

But Gumboot. I just point out that a shooter who is used to high magnification tend to be less accurate about trigger-pull when going down in magnification. As a shooting instructer I have witnessed this many times. Likewise, when folks go from their old 4x to a new 12x they feel it is dancing all over the place.

But to say that 4x is all you EVER need out to 400 yards and ALL ELSE is BS, is pretty funny, to be kind about it.

.

.
. No doubt at the longer distances . but for off hand learning to shoot a big bore rifle , a 2 1/2 -4 x scope is pretty ideal when all things are taken into account .............

Sidewshow of a related story - The first medium-big bore I owned was a MKV in .460. I got a call from my regular dealer at the time saying he had this thing and he knew I was a buyer for any kind of hammer. A guy had ordered the rifle, put two rounds down range and returned it to the store. Apparently it was too much gun for him. So I wander down to the store, check it out and decide I need it. I loaded up some 500 grain monos at a couple grains below max and off to the range. My younger brother joined me for the clown fest. His experience with heavy rifles was ZERO which was only slightly less than mine at that point. We proceeded to fire nealy 40 rounds with the brake thereby driving everyone else off the range except for - SUPER BUBBA!! Super Bubba had heard the noise from out in the parking lot and ventured in where he also heard from annoyed patrons. ( 100 yard indoor range ). Up until this point my brother and I suffered from near asphyxiation due to laughter at the whole three-foot fireball monster shockwave action but no other injury was forthcoming. Well Super Bubba struts in and states he had owned a 460 "HogLeg" for anti-bear duty and knew very well how to use one and could he shoot a couple rounds. Sure I says and stepped back from the bench. Bubba was a burly rustic looking fellow, exactly what you'd expect of an experienced Alaskan Outback guy. So anyway, Bubba gets himself all glued to the gun and the bench and lights off the first round. Evidently he had only fired HIS 460 "HogLeg" from the hip cause he drove the Leupold through his glasses and into his forehead. I'm sure he needed some stitches to close that Mike Tyson Clocking and I needed to remount the scope as his head moved it forward in the rings ... Amusing now but not so at the time ...

RIP, you've probably mentioned it before, but, do you stay with 6-48 base screws or upgrade to 8-40s?

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
RIP, you've probably mentioned it before, but, do you stay with 6-48 base screws or upgrade to 8-40s?

Yes, if the rifle does not have integral bases and it uses screw-on 6x48, they get changed to 8x40. Three above:
404 Jeffery (M70 Classic Stainless)
.375 Wby (Mark X)
.375 H&H (Pre-64 M70)
have been 8x40-ed, and JB Weld epoxied to boot. They are integral until a torch is applied.
The rest above have truly integral bases.

maddenwh,
Better be careful about saying you like any of my rifles.
That can get you branded as tasteless.

Jay,
Bet you were P-O-ed about the gray matter left on the ocular lens!
That stuff is greasey and hard to clean up.

quote:

Jay,
Bet you were P-O-ed about the gray matter left on the ocular lens!
That stuff is greasey and hard to clean up.

Guess it bounced off his head faster than any RBC/ooze could transfer and the scope was undamaged. The little Leupold 1.5 - 5's are pretty tough I'd say. I'm curious about all these low power scopes - gonna start another thread in a bit ...

quote:

Better be careful about saying you like any of my rifles.
That can get you branded as tasteless.

I prefer, "frugal tastes," or an "eye for ergonomics." Euphemisms I frequently employ.