Putting together a 40 cal DG rifle, should be about 10.5 lbs when all is done. Running 3 lb pulls on my other rifles but am thinking that the trigger pull on this rifle should be closer to 4 lbs considering weight and recoil. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Prior to my recent trip to Zim, I installed a Timney Trigger on my RSM .458Lott and set it to 2.5-2.75 # pull after experimenting at the range on numerous occasions. I found this much better for the big bore than the 3-3.25 # on my medium bores, especially when shooting offhand while supporting a heavy big bore rifle. You should always keep your finger outside the trigger guard until you're ready to fire the shot anyway.

BTW, it's always a good idea after lightening a trigger to cock the rifle and then bang the recoil pad on the floor a couple times to ensure the trigger/sear will not release accidentally.

When you are shooting a heavy rifle at game you are typically abit excited. Add that to the additional weight of the rifle and your pull should be heavier than what you are used too. Additionally, If you are hunting in the cold of Alaska it should be heavier still.
Shooting DG is a close range affair, you don't need 1/2 MOA, you need reliability.
A crisp 5# pull on a heavy rifle works just fine.

I agree with 458Win I had some bigger stuff with light triggers after a hog hunt in thick brush I sit them up to 4lbs.

The light ones were to easy to touch off when you didn't want them trying to shoot fast. Shot right over the back of the frist hog I had a chance at as I was bringing the down o it.

I agree completely with 4 lbs which is where my Rigby and Lott are. My .510 van Horn and Wells are set at 5+. I have found that the heavier trigger forces me to concentrate on everything before the violence of the recoil is released.
Frank

Thanks all for the advice

4 to 5lbs for the reasons stated by 458win.

I tend to set my varmint triggers very light, and my hunting rifles 3 1/2-4 1/2 lbs. because I'll be going through brush and crossing fences ect. not sitting still all the time at a bench, or laying on a mat. My trigger on my 416 Taylor I left right where it was out of the box, I haven't measured it but is some where a little over 4 1/2lbs. A heavy rifle that kicks quite a bit needs to be pulled in tight and you don't want it go go off until your good and ready for that reason.

IMO,the lightest pull you can train yourself to work all the time or under all conditions is the better.Any way you want to look at it ,a light trigger makes for more accurate shooting.It just requires alot of training to use a light or heavy trigger effectively.The trigger should not have any slack if it does it should be even in resistance.The ideal trigger feels firm but not heavy and goes off when you start to apply a little pressure without giving any indication as to when it will happen.I guess this is where the saying "breaks like glass' comes from.You place your finger on the trigger and as soon as you start to apply pressure the trigger shatters from beneath leaving nothing but air.

shootaway, that sounds like good page filler for a paper back novel, but what is the bottom line in pounds of pull weight for a DG rifle, in your opinion?

I just measured mine,both my Ruger and a CZ with a Timney installed by Ralph Martini.I don't own one of those special devices but I found a couple of flat scale weights,one a one pounder and the other a two pounder.I placed a pen across the trigger and layed the wights on the pen.The Ruger is slightly under three pounds and the CZ slightly under two.I would put the ideal weight at 2 1/4 to 2 1/2.

I'm not sure what the temperature in Alaska, going through brush, climbing fences, or caliber have to do with the poundage of trigger pull! Why does a light trigger not go off while "bringing the rifle down to it" on a light caliber but does on a heavy rifle?

Bottom line is don't put your finger into the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot! Going through brush or crossing fences with a loaded and "off safe" weapon is careless, to put it mildly!

I use the set trigger on my 416 Rigby most of the time. At least on the first shot. I've never had it go off unexpectedly while pulling it in tight to the shoulder! Obviously, I would not use the set feature while trying to pull Mr. Nasty out of the thick stuff, but I would have the Safety on (but ready to be snapped off), trigger finger out of the guard until time to shoot.

I don't mean to come off as a know it all because I don't. That's for sure. But I'm seeing more and more comments that in my opinion, address lazy gun safety instead of shooting or hunting technique. Over on the African Hunting forum, there is a guy who yesterday actually stated that he doesn't worry about his PH's safety because he carries a Blaser double with the cocking mechanism. So because you carry a K-Gun or Blaser, is it now ok to do the African carry without worrying about where the muzzles are pointed?

How does a heavy trigger contribute to gun safety when crossing a fence or going through brush? I was always taught to unload my gun when crossing a fence. Have I always done that. Probably not. But I have always put the gun down in a safe spot, with the safety on or handed it to another person with the chamber empty and safety on. I've never climbed over a fence with the gun loaded, safety off, relying on a "heavy trigger pull" to keep the rifle from going off while it and I are on top of a 4 strand barbed wire fence!

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
When you are shooting a heavy rifle at game you are typically abit excited. Add that to the additional weight of the rifle and your pull should be heavier than what you are used too. Additionally, If you are hunting in the cold of Alaska it should be heavier still.
Shooting DG is a close range affair, you don't need 1/2 MOA, you need reliability.
A crisp 5# pull on a heavy rifle works just fine.

Hard to argue with Phil about either barrel length or trigger pull weight when you're in the thick stuff. I still like my barrel length a bit longer and my trigger pull a bit lighter than Phil does, but I'm not going into the thick stuff like he does many times a year after wounded things that can eat me.

I have a clean breaking 3 to 4 pound pull on my DG guns. I suspect if one does not shoot quite a bit a crisp clean breaking 4.5 to 5 lb. pull is what most veteran hunters find acceptable.

I'm not real particular on a hunting rifle, but I am on a varmint rifle..My favorite DG rifle for years had a Mauser Military trigger with the slack taken out of it and it probably broke slightly spongy at about 5 pounds?, but I was used to it..I had a nice controlled jerk that worked very well for me on that old dog, but it was a 500 Jefferys and as I aged I opted to get rid of it and go to the 40 calibers.

Use what works for you. You'll soon know your likes and dislikes. I think if one shoots any trigger enough you get to where you can shoot it. Same with a stock, your body adjusts in time.

What some people here do not realize is that using rifles for dangerous game is different than target shooting, praire dog shooting or whitetail sniping. The rifles are different and the techniques are different.
The hunting most folks here are used to is more akin to sniping, which is why they prefer lighter trigger pulls. A rifle designed for DG need to be more of a CQB rifle. In addition the rifles are normally heavier, with more recoil. You are under a lot of stress, things happen quickly and at close range. Under stress ( as any of you who have ever been there can attest) your fine motor skill go to hell.
Which is why a rifle designed for DG should have a heavier trigger pull.

Ditto's on Phil's comments above, personally I don't like any DG rifle with a trigger pull under 4 pounds heavier is better, under that and your asking for trouble IMO.

Well, I bow the fact that I'm in the minority opinion on this one! LionHunter and Ray have more experience than I and we seem to be on the same line of thought but most seem to agree with Phil. Phil also has a lot of experience and has no doubt formed his preference for a heavy trigger on a DG from years in the bush.

But I cannot give you a logical connection between the physical weight of the gun or amount of recoil that would make me desire to pull harder on the trigger to make it go off!

The reasons put forth here don't make sense to me. Why would going through brush (I assume with the chamber empty and / or at least with the safety on) or crossing a fence (I assume with your partner holding the weapon or with it sitting on the ground) dictate that you would need a heaver trigger pull? Why would you need a heavier trigger pull because the rifle weighs a couple of pounds more or kicks a little harder than some of your other rifles? I lived in Colorado at 9657' elevation for 5 years, and hunted CO every year since 95 for Elk at high elevations. I've been on the mountain with the temp at -25F. Never has that cold made me wish my trigger pull was a couple of pounds heavier! In fact, I didn't think of the trigger pull weight at all! If I rely on a heavy trigger pull to keep the rifle from going off until I'm ready, while at the same time I'm squeezing the trigger and pulling the sights down onto a hog, what difference does the caliber of weapon make in correcting this technique? Those situations and trigger pull weight just don't seem to have any connection to me.

I can understand that in the excitement of meeting up with DG on its own terms, a hunter will be excited. But I still don't get the point. I don't have the DG experience level that some here have but I do have more than some others including 2 Coastal Brown Bears and combined double digits of all the African DG except Croc. In none of those encounters did I think that my trigger pull weight was too light! Again, I didn't think of it at all.

When I flew FA-18's off of aircraft carriers at night, in bad weather, in combat, there was some stress involved as anyone who has been there can attest! Luckily, my fine motor skills never went to hell bad enough that I couldn't land the jet back aboard the boat!

I agree with Ray, who has a lot of experience by the way, in that shooting any trigger long enough will get you to the point where you can shoot it and use what works for you. But like I said, I'm in the minority here so if we happen to be hunting together and you need to borrow my rifle, be careful. It might go off prematurely!!


PS. I do hope that the latter part of this post is taken in the vein of humor that is intended. Sometimes things are misinterpreted on the internet.

Todd, The physical weight of a rifle and the recoil of a heavy recoiling rifle means that you have to hold it tighter and because of that a heavier pull does not cause the problem it would when trying to hit a tiny, distant target.
It is a fact that stress causes loss of fine motor control. Some of the fine motor control can be retained by hours and hours of realistic training - if you were a carrier pilot you know as much about that as anyone. Eventually, when you finaly learn to do a dangerous, demanding task you learn to manage the stress.
But I don't know of anything that helps when you begin to loose feeling in you hands due to their being cold - except to warm them up if it is possible.

I have been doing this now for over half my life and I have seen an awful lot of unintended discharges due to hunters firing before they wanted due to light trigger pulls and stress. Police reports are full of similar stories. Any person who can carry and shoot a 10 pound heavy rifle should be able to pull a crisp 5# trigger. It is lighter than most double action pulls on 2 1/2 pound revolvers and nobody complains about them. You just need more training.

Yep Phil, I can always use more training and experience.

Cheers,

Todd

Todd,

I have refrained from commenting further on the crap being spread in this thread, but I got a kick out of your reply above. All I can say is that as a Naval Aviator you appreciate that the common folk tend to view life differently. Perhaps that carries over into opinions on trigger pull weight, yes?

Oh, and Phil, not to worry, as I won't ever be booking a hunt with you. I've been carrying one form of firearm or another - actually quite a variety - every day for over 46 years, which will be more than half of your lifetime. One size doesn't fit all.

Semper Fi

You are correct Mike in the one size does not fit all. That is why we have this forum so all of us can learn a thing or two from folks who have more or different experiences.
If you have been carrying a heavy DG rifle every day for over 46 years I don't think I would have to worry about your handling skills. Even if you were a jar-head

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
When you are shooting a heavy rifle at game you are typically abit excited. Add that to the additional weight of the rifle and your pull should be heavier than what you are used too. Additionally, If you are hunting in the cold of Alaska it should be heavier still.
Shooting DG is a close range affair, you don't need 1/2 MOA, you need reliability.
A crisp 5# pull on a heavy rifle works just fine.

I definately agree, a good 5lb trigger pull on a DG rifle is way better than a 3 lb pull...

Also in bad weather, cold, raining, wearing gloves, I would rather have an 8lb trigger pull, than a 3 lb trigger pull...

When one is shooting at a target at say 40 yds and they want to hit it quickly near the center three or four times there is a series of tasks that need to be executed.You fire the first shot, eject the shell,regain the bead in your rear sight and bring it quickly to the center of the target.All this is done holding the big bore the way you hold a big bore without getting injured from the recoil.You manage to get the bead on the center and you mentally say to yourself "NOW". The "NOW" will only happen with the type of trigger I described.If at that moment you have 4 or 5 pounds to deal with,the bead will not wait for you or stay there and not wander off.BTW,if you can't hit your target at the range you certainly aren't going to hit it in the field or on a DG hunt.

Every rifle I have (lots of them), including DG rifles, has a 3 lb. trigger pull. I can change rifles instantly and count on the trigger being the same from caliber to caliber. I favor consistency. I have taken Brown bear in shitty Alaska weather, Grizzly in the mountains, Sheep and Goat in the mountains, Moose, caribou, Muskox in the Arctic at sub zero temps, Elk, Mule deer, Whitetail deer under every condition, leopard, elephant, several Buff including a full on charge, never a malfunction. I don't think there is a rule. Go with what you like.

My only exception to this is my DRs, only because I couldn't get them that low.

I'm finally convinced.
Now that you mention it, when I was competing in international 3 position rifle matches I did shoot much better with an 8 oz trigger rather than a super heavy 3 pound pull.
Those charging bears at 3 yards won't stand a chance once I adjust the trigger on my 458 down to a crisp 8 oz. In fact some of the guys that used to outshoot me on the range used to use 4 oz triggers.

Just kidding.
Different application require different equipment and different techniques. As Mike said, one size does not fit all. That may be one reason the folks who built Butch's Double rifles gave them heavy trigger pulls?
Each to their own.

Damn Mike you sure picked on a guy with some impressive credentials to challange..I doubt if there is a more experienced hunter of DG or a better shot around than 458 who is the number 1 Bear Guide in Alaska...I have been around the shooting/hunting game for 60 plus years, been to every continent many times to hunt, and I think Phil is one of the best hunters I have ever been around. He has earned that respect, not a given from me, and what he says is worth listening to at least.

BTW, one size can fit all if thats all you got, and you will adjust to it..I can adjust to any rifle or shotgun if I shoot it a few times, that came out of necessity early on in my youth.

I thought Gary "Butch" King was #1. At least according to him!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I thought Gary "Butch" King was #1. At least according to him!

I see you know Butch as well.

He does run a good operation.

This is not intended as a jab at Todd or anyone else, but speaking from the perspective that comes from doing most of my hunting in cold, cold weather, I find it humorous when folks from Texas or Florida scoff at the necessity for a heavier trigger pull when shooting in the cold. My finger is always kept out of the trigger guard until the gun is aimed...although sometimes I have to check this visually, because my hand is numb within 60 seconds of first exposure to the freezing air.

John

In my opinion and experience, there is no reason or need for a lighter trigger pull weight on a big bore rifle, as compared with a small bore.

Assuming that one is using a bolt action and has put in sufficient practice, of course.

All of my field hunting rifles, from .510 to .257 caliber, have a trigger pull weight of right around 2.5-3 lbs.

YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
This is not intended as a jab at Todd or anyone else, but speaking from the perspective that comes from doing most of my hunting in cold, cold weather, I find it humorous when folks from Texas or Florida scoff at the necessity for a heavier trigger pull when shooting in the cold. My finger is always kept out of the trigger guard until the gun is aimed...although sometimes I have to check this visually, because my hand is numb within 60 seconds of first exposure to the freezing air.

John

Live in Texas now. Didn't always. Read my earlier post. Lived on the West side of Pikes Peak at 9657' for several years. Hunted at high elevations (over 10K') for going on 16 years now. Hunted Alaska a few times as well. Never had my "Texas" guns and "Cold Area" guns separated. They were the same. Never "cranked up" the trigger pull when heading out for Elk and "cranked down" the trigger pull when heading for the Zambezi Valley. All my triggers are around 2.5 to 3 lbs except for my DR's.

Before this thread, I never gave one second's thought to trigger pull weights being different for my heavy rifles compared to my light rifles. I always valued a nice, crisp, light trigger on all my rifles. I certainly never thought of different trigger pull weights based on temperature, going through brush, crossing fences, shooting at hogs, etc, etc. I've got a buddy who took a Polar Bear about 6 years ago. He shot it with a bow but used a mechanical release with a trigger. I think I'll call him up and ask if he adjusted that trigger to 15 lbs or so, since the temps there were extremely cold. Colder than than a Texas winter, that's for sure!

I find it humorous when folks from Canada scoff at people from Texas or Florida as if their current address prevents them from having experience in cold weather. But then again, we all know that Canadians have never worn a pair of shorts or flip-flops, eh!

Am I the only one here who thinks this thread is absolutely silly? Really, go back and look at the reasons given for a heavy trigger pull. Going through Brush and Crossing Fences. Cold weather. Heavy (weight wise) guns. Do you guys adjust your trigger or use a different rifle due to the trigger pull weight, depending on these factors?

Have you ever said to yourself, I really want to use my 300 Win Mag today for Elk, but there is a storm brewing at the high elevations. It might get down below 0F. Well, the trigger is too light on that rifle with those weather conditions, so I'll use the 375. The trigger pull weight on that rifle is better suited to the snow and ice.

I tried to introduce a little levity to match the subject in my last few posts. Seeing how serious everyone is on this thread has been good for a laugh guys! But I gotta run. Enjoy.

Canadian gun laws require that all hunting rifles sold in this country come equipped with a radio-controlled, variable-trigger-pull-adjustment device installed by the manufacturer/importer. This is similar to the radio-controlled watches that are tied in to the atomic clock in Boulder, Colorado except that they receive their instructions from Parliament Hill in Ottawa, where they are monitored on a 7/24 basis by highly trained firearms experts. These worthies decide what trigger-pull is appropriate, based on visual and weather data obtained in real-time from the orbiting spy satellites that observe all Canadians, all the time. The normal default setting is somewhere around 300 pounds of pull, but occasionally they lighten one up enough to allow a few shots to be fired.

Todd, I hope that my earlier post didn't sound all that serious. I assure you it wasn't taking a shot at you...just having a bit of fun of my own.

John

p.s. What are flip-flops? Sounds like a Canadian Liberal Party move.

This string made me go check my Model 70, I've had it for 7 years and I've never measured the trigger pull.

It breaks between 3 Lbs, 6 oz and 3 Lbs 9 Oz for five measurements.

I don't know much about trigger pull weight. I know when the trigger pull is satisfactory to me and that is all I really care about. I have only had 2 rifles built for me from scratch and on neither one did I specify the trigger pull was to be a certain weight. I once owned a trigger pull gauge but seldom had any use for it as I don't really like trigger work and feel they are best left to real experts on triggers. So I have no real idea WHAT the pull is on any of my dangerous game rifles or any of my varmint guns. I've never really cared much one way or the other. If it feels good it IS good as far as I am concerned. As to hunting in extremely cold weather I have absolutely no reason to change my mind as I never have and never will hunt in extremely cold weather. I just don't find it pleasant and hunting is NOT something I take as a chore. To me it has always been something special that I LIKE to do. If it were my profession then I might feel differently about it but probably would just change professions. Just one old mans opinion.

quote:

What are flip-flops? Sounds like a Canadian Liberal Party move.

Hey John, not just Canadian Liberals. US too. But I think you've got the hang of it now!!

Cheers,

Todd

I have not hunted DG yet but do use a 9.3X62 Mauser on the range, pretending to be Bwana!

One factor that does not seem to have been addressed in detailed is the difference between trigger pull weight & seer engagement. I find that a safe but crisp seer engagement is most critical for accurate shooting and avoiding "pulling" and yanking the trigger - irrespective of trigger pull weight. My Tikka 222 has a very light pull wight & shoots 0.5" 5 shot groups. My deer rifles have more like 2.5 lbs pull weight but are still very crisp. I have missed a few shots when the seer engagement on a new rifle had not been adjusted properly. On the Simson 9.3 I find the original Mauser trigger (twin set) works fine as a single trigger for quick shooting and can be set for a very light pull for longer range careful shooting. The other thing I found with the Simson in its new stock was that the single trigger did not work well until I removed some wood from the trigger housing area and got a better engagement and release of the twin trigger assembly.

In other words - correct (safe and yet crisp) seer adjustment is more important than pull weight. Yes, bumping the cocked (NOT loaded) rifle on the but end is a good way to check that the seer engagement is not too marginal. JMHO.

3.5 pounds on all my centerfire rifles, whether for DG or deer or varmints.
That allows the occasional 0.13 to 0.14 MOA 3-shot group at 100 yards with a .375 to .416 rifle.

I have to be really careful with my flintlock, as it has a 15-ounce trigger, and is reserved for religious experiences.

I have a Brno Mauser with double set triggers and the set trigger is about 1.5..I love it for running shots I put the crosshair where it needs to be and touch the trigger, it works like a charm..It takes a lot of practice..By the same token I have a milsurp 8x57 carbine that I have had for many years as a loaner or whatever, it has an atrocious trigger, slack and pulls like a sponge..but it works, again it took some practice to get used to..My 25-35 SRC has a rather blan trigger, but it shoots great. There is more to accurate shooting than trigger pull, a good controlled jerk ain't all that bad.

Bottom line is a hunter should be able to shoot any rifle within reason and without all the niceites of the modern world, you never know when you may need to borrow a junker. I have seen folks use some cheap scopes, bad triggers, shot out bores, and Lord knows what else that killed about everything they shot at.

Granted a 3 lb. trigger is nice, but it's not the total criteria to a successful hunt. Lets not become a nation of spoiled hunters..Just food for thought, take it or leave it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

a good controlled jerk ain't all that bad.

Boy, now there's more wisdom in that remark than any other on this thread!