The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 404 Jeff for elephant (pic added)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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May have a chance next year for an ele cow during leopard hunt in Zim. I followed what RIP did for a version of a Model 70. 300 RUM S/S Model 70 modified by Harry McGowen to 404. It shoots well with whatever Superior loads for the 400 grain A Square bullets. Was looking for suggestions on what solid to use and what loads. As far as I know only Woodleigh and Barnes make solids for the 404. I am sure both will work for ele, just looking for suggestions from those of you who have shot ele with 404. BigB | ||
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I HAVE NOT shot ele..... North Fork also makes .423 dia solids and they have a excellent reputation.  Have you checked Bridger?
My originl post said that if Will can shoot ele with a 416 Taylor, then the 404 Jeffery is at least as good. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Such blasphemy!!  ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Will, I have already shot 2 ele bulls with a 470 double so I thought it was time for a change. Variety is the spice of life. By the way read your book on a flight back from Beijing on Sunday, it was a great read. Thanks BigB | |||
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Vapodog, I have not checked Bridger, would also like to hear of someone who used Northforks on ele. Thanks BigB | |||
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I shot a bull elephant, frontal brain at <6 yards with a 450 North Fork solid out of my 450 No2 at 2205 fps. He went right down at the shot. The bullet penetrated the skull and went back into the body at least the distance of a rifle cleaning rod. It was not found. I also shot a giraffe with one cup point and a few other FP solids. I like them. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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BigB, Look no further than the North Fork .423/380gr FP Solid. Enough people here (not me) have shot elephants with the FP solid by North Fork to make them certifiable elephant-brainers, just like the GSC FN. 380 grain North Fork cup point and soft point will complete your bullet needs in .404 Jeffery, unless you want a sheep and varmint bullet too: most perfect for this would be the GSC .423/320gr HV. | |||
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Vapo edited his post so my first reply is somewhat nonsensical, but..... I think I remember you selling your 470. The older I get big heavy doubles are certainly less appealing! For all the hype all the 416's are the same including the 404 when loaded to the same velocities. If you are looking for a lightweight, you should try my 416 Taylor solution (7.5 lbs.). A dream come true! It's birth should be chronicled in African Hunter in one of the next few issues.------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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BigB, If Will's .416 Taylor pop gun is sufficient, you know your 10" twist .404 Jeffery is. 83 grains of Varget Extreme with the NF .423/380gr FP solid (Norma brass, GM215M primer) is right around 2500 fps. Sure thing. That load is 2525 fps in my 24" McGowen stainless 10" twist. There. You are done lookin'. If you must use 400 grain Swift A-frames, for buffalo, sheep or varmints, consider 80 to 81 grains of Varget Extreme for right about 2400 fps. | |||
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I edited my first post to the original posting as after I reread the original thread the question was not about the adequacy of the 404....onlyabout the solids available for it.....so I deleted the part I added back as Will's comments are in line with what I deleted. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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It is very effective and was used extensively for Jumbo control by Game Departments of Uganda and Tanganyika. Thad Scott Fine Guns #18555 is a typical example of a "Good Ole' Boy".  | |||
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Vapodog, Nice photo. For what its worth, if you heft any of the bullets in that photo, the 423 is the minimum caliber that passes the "Oh shit" test. It has a combination of weight and diameter that is just, well, comforting. You would not think anyone could tell the difference between a 416 and 423, but you can. An elephant probably cant either, but I could. Ron, am I imagining things? Andy | |||
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I went to northforks website to find a photo and didn't find one but I remembered seeing one on the AHF forum and copied that.....I believe that was your post Andy and my apologies for not crediting you for the photo. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog, I actually took that photo because Mike did not have a picture on his web site of the solids, so we are on the same wave length. Andy | |||
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Thanks all, spoke to Mike Brady today, sounds like a real good guy. Where do I buy 404 Jeff reloading dies, I can get RCBS at Huntingtons for $245. Any other options. RIP, How do the North Fork flat points feed in your model 70? I have not reloaded a round in 20 years but guess it is time to start again. BigB | |||
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Mike is the real deal...a great guy. As far as dies for the 404 Jeffery go, check out Redding dies. Graf & Sons may have them, at least that's where I bought mine, for about $120 including the shellholder | |||
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Mine came from CH-4D at about half the price and work very well. Some have posted negatively about them...mine are just fine!! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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BigB, Glad you are resuming reloading with North Fork bullets. You passed "GO," collected $200, and got a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. I use "North Devon" dies. One of our British friends will know the proprietor's name, I forget. It has been mentioned here before. Jack First of Rapid City, SD still had a few sets on hand (3-die), for only about $150, when I was there a couple of months ago. Jack First is mainly a mail-order parts place now, still going strong. The North Devon firm in England seems to be out of operation though. RCBS would be a good choice too, from what I hear. If I found some RCBs dies I would grab them. North Devon too. My M70 feeds all the North Forks fine, from the RUM box. You simply must be sure that the sharp edges and corners on the Winchester barrel extractor cut have been beveled/rounded and polished smooth so has not to snag a bullet nose going by. Andy, Right. It doesn't seem like .007" of bullet diameter would be so "oh-shit-ish," but it is.  | |||
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Beautiful and business-like. That will get the job done. McMillan stock, eh?Here is my "Homey" on the kitchen table (Brown Precision stock):  Packs light:  In full recoil prone:  One North Fork 380 grain Soft Point at 2525 fps and one dead bison bull. Comstock Lodge, Nebraska "Hunt" arranged by Yoda Ray, before he went over to The Dark Side. | |||
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You can also get the Redding dies direct from Redding. Although they are classed "Custom", they had them in stock a few months ago. If I remember right, they were about $165. "There always seems to be a big market for making the clear, complex." | |||
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Redding is great too. The .404 Jeffery is a CIP standard, well and long past standardized. They've had since 1905 to get it right. No issues with RCBS or Redding or North Devon that I know of. | |||
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BigB, sorry no ele exp. but my .404 is also a modified M70RUM. It is not 100% w/ Mike's exc. FPS, but the rifle does love the 380gr softs. For solids, I like the new Branes banded solid, feeds well & accuracy is great. In wetpack tests, the NF shows more "tissue" damage but neither was stopped by 6" of wetpac, 2" of plywood & 30" of wetpack. I load on Redding dies, very good dies, for about $120 two years ago.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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I am waiting on Redding 404J dies. The plant is on annual vacation until August 14th, and none are on the shelves. LD. Fred, I like your rifle more every time I see that picture. Does it have the one piece or two piece bottom metal? How many cartridges does it hold down? Thanks (I probably already asked those questions, but I turn fifty in two weeks. You know how that is).  | |||
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I think Graf & Sons has them in stock for $120+/- but you have to find them under full length sets, other, page 7 or 8.... | |||
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Byron, if you can would you E-mail pictures of both eles to me! I' like to print them both, and put them in my file along with on that 470NE double! Some info on ivory weight, no of shots, and range, as well would be nice! I had the one picture you sent me, but when I changed to a new computer, and server I lost it!  I think you'll like the NFs! I have about 150 of them but haven't shot anything with them, been sick!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I have to agree with lawndart. I like that rifle Fred. It's just 'right'. Very classy! ============================== "I'd love to be the one to disappoint you when I don't fall down" --Fred Durst | |||
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LD, I feel your pain, I turn 50 in 4wks.  Thanks for the props captain. The bottom metal is original 2pc. I figure some day I'll break or bang the stock so bad I'll have my riflesmith put a nice piece of wood on it w/ a Blackburn drop bottom metal. As is it holds 3 down. She shoots as good as she looks too. On good days I can get well under an inch w/ the little VXIII & 380gr softs or 400gr solids. Now if Mike will just get some more stock in so I can get some of those 340gr softs for my ultimate one rifle battery.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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 Mac, This one is 22 or 232 KG shot with a 470 that looks a lot like yours. Range 20 yards first shot. Then shot a few more times as the first shot a TBSH ( as found out later) riveted on the shoulder and did not penetrate. I will look for the photos of the other ones and scan and send you as they are real film. Byron | |||
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Thanks all, Dies are ordered from Grafs - they were in stock. I have actually found my press, scale, etc in the basement. Even ordered 375 dies while I was at it. May even have to buy a chrongraph - is Oehler still the one recomended. Fred - I think yours is a tad better looking than mine. Rip - I like the looks of yours, have you ever measured the bore - just curious? Thanks BigB | |||
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BigB, it's just a stock M70RUM, factory stock shortened, Pac.Dec. pad, cross bolts, NECG front & Dakota 1/4 rib & banded swivel. One could spend more but I like it, she shoots great so I'm happy. While I doubt I will ever hunt ele, I would feel adequately armed W/ 400gr solids @ 2200fps. Some day I would love to own a double but until then, this will have to do. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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McGowen may mark the barrel "425" (on the breech end that is machined off when threading for mounting and chambering, and there is also a "ST" for stainless, and a 10" for twist) because he used it on the 425 Express. Similarly his .510 barrels are marked "50" because used for various 50 caliber rifles. The McGowen 404 Jeffery barrel is .423" groove diameter, verified by slugging of my barrel on rifle above, you bet. Same stainless as your barrel, and same as the CZ Safari Classic, except the latter is chrome-moly. The 6 grooves are wide, the 6 lands are narrow, the twist is fast (10") ... and it is the best .404 Jeffery barrel available. You did well in getting a McGowen barrel. I have three of them and will be needing a fourth soon.  | |||
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Hey Bro' What is the barrel length and muzzle diameter that you use with your McGowen barrels? Thanks, dart | |||
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Lawndart, Mine is 25 inches in length #5 contour which McGowen lists as .700 muzzle diameter - weight 4.5 pounds. I can measure it this evening and let you know for sure. BigB | |||
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Bro' Doctor Dart: My barrel is 24" and number 5 and it was .700" at the muzzle when it was 26" long but is a little thicker at the 24" muzzle. Same barrel as BigB's, stainless, but I think the weight of my finished barrel was about 3 lbs, don't recall exactly. Heal thyself, physician. Thy cure is a new .404 Jeffery. | |||
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Bro' Dart, Sorry I never put the Grateful Dead decal on this rifle cheekpiece. If I ever find a good one, I shall. This Brown Precision stock has three hidden all-thread cross bolts and two stainless steel pillars, an axial grip bolt of all-thread, and a lot of epoxy added, whether it needed it or not. I did not run over into any of the molded checkering areas, and the blue-gray is the original paint finish from Brown Precision. I did get creative with a map of Africa on the other side of the buttstock, as I am sure you recall. The naked-rifle-weight of this piece is 8.5 pounds, well balanced. Still looking for a genuine Grateful Dead licensed merchandise decal-sticker.  | |||
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Lawndart, Muzzle diameter is .710, weight is 9 lbs. with Leupold 1.5 X 5 scope, Leupold rings, McMillan stock and decelerator pad. Used the gun in the field once for brown bear in Alaska and it worked fine. So far has feed and ejected everything with no problems and shoots well. BigB | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 404 Jeff for elephant (pic added)
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