I find doubles very interesting. I was wondering if you wanted to look for a (beginers double)what would you look at? Sounds like you could get burned big time if you dont know what you are doing.
I see the price range is quite large. What do you feel some one could get into a basic "hunter" for. Sorry to ask dumb questions but if you dont ask you dont learn.
Saw some pics on the safari hat thread of some fine looking rifles.
Thanks Dean

1. Buy a new one. Although antique doubles may be very appealing for nostalgia reasons, and once in a while they look like a good buy, you can easily end up with a piece of junk.

2. If you insist on buying a used one, buy it from a reputable outfit with a top notch reputation with a warranty. And insist on shooting it first. For example, you could go to westley richards and get one. As a beginner I would definitely not buy one out of a guy's basement unless I was willing to lose my investment.

3. Read Graeme Wright's book, "Shooting the British Double Rifle" or something like that.

4. Did I mention to buy a new one?

5. Buy a standard caliber. (470 NE, 500 NE) Stay away from the weird stuff for which brass and other components may be hard to come by.

6. Don't buy a black powder express even though it may seem like a good deal. I passed up a chance at a Holland & Holland 500 BPE hammer gun for $3500. Seemed like a great price, BUT it would not have had enough power to be a dangerous game gun and I really could not afford to just throw $3500 away.

I'll have to agree with 500 grains. Unless you are willing to spend some time and effort getting a used rifle checked out, buy a NIB double.

I along with others on this forum love British double rifles. They are a functional art form.

the first thing you need to decide is what you intend to do with your double rifle. Is it to be used a stopper ie .470 or 475#2 or a 500. I would suggest that you try for something smaller such as 450/400, or a 9.3X74R. Perhaps a 500/416.

I think you will find those chamberings more versitle and you can hunt more often with your double.

Patience is a virtue when looking for a double rifle. Find one you like and can shoot and that will be the best double rifle of all!

All good advice above! And I too would advise you to buy new, untill you get a little more experience with double rifles. If you are going to use it only for Dangerous game in African then in a new rifle I'd buy a 470NE. This chambering will re-sell for colose to the mony you paid even if not a British double. I would buy a new B.Searcy, Chapuis, Merkel,Krieghoff, or Heym. The Searcy, Merkel, Chapuis, Krieghoff will run you about the same amount of money, around $9K cased in makers case. The B.Searcy will be the only one of these that will be made to fit you, and also have a waiting period for delevery, but worth the wait! None of these will have the re-sell value of a nice name Britt rifle, but I find most who buy a double rifle, rarely sell it, especially if it is made for them personally. Of the one mentioned above the Heym will set you back $16K new, but good used ones can be had for around $12K. All are good intry level double rifles.

Now If you are going to hunt in North America with the double rifle, then I reccomend a Merkel, or Chapuis chambered for 9.3X74R! It is a great chambering, and is legal for big stuff in Africa,in most countries, but light for that purpose. For North America, it will handle anything that shows up in the woods! They are cheap to shoot, and in my experience usually very accurate. These 9.3X74R doubles can be had NEW for under $5K, and will serve you well in North America.

The pictures you saw in the HAT thread were:

400 NITRO a Hollis 450/400NE 3"

PWN 45-70 D. Pedersoli,
now rechambered for 450#2 NE

MAC (Me) Merkel 9.3X74R

RUSTY a Hollis 450/400NE 3"

All are shooters!

Thanks for all the great advice going to have to save for awhile but it has to start some where.
The pedersoli can that be rechambered in 458 lott used to know where one was? Thanks again guys you have some fine looking rifles.
dean

I guess what I should have asked was what calb Pedersoli did he start with and what can one of these rifles be rechambered for. Thanks Johan I am new to this game. Mentioned 458 because i have a single in that calb.
dean

Tonto,

Our fault for not mentioning that double rifles were designed for flanged cartridge. The basis design of the double rifle was to deliver to you two large caliber bullets at low pressure in tropical heat.

The idea is that you can fire the weapon and upon breaking open the action the fired brass will slide out of the barrels. The flanged brass also helps with extraction/ejection.

With a double rifle you don't try to drive the bullet as fast as you can, it is trying to get the barrels to shoot to the same POI.

There is no question that a bolt action is stronger and will drive a bullet faster and with better accuracy that a double rifle. Granted that owning and shooting doubles to some extent is romancing the rifle/caliber, however doubles do what they do very well. I and others here on this forum enjoy the adventure of owning and shooting double rifles.

The members of this forum hold a treasure of information on a variety of subjects, thank goodness one of those treasures is double rifles!

OH, Perry's double started life as a 45/70. He had great success in rechambering it. It is a shame that he lost it down a warthog hole on his safari last year. Terrible accident.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

[ 02-21-2003, 03:48: Message edited by: Rusty ]

Rusty
I hope you are not serious about the warthog hole! If you are can I get a map to the buried Treasure.
Thanks for all the info I am taking notes. Looks like I have to do some seriuos working and saving. That Pedersoli is the one with the hammers isnt it. I am sure i will have more questions as i get closer to the purchase thanks again.
dean

[ 02-21-2003, 07:59: Message edited by: PWN ]

Rusty,

My PH from that hunt has reported he located my converted Pedersoli, but alas it had been molested by the pigs and was now only suitable for use by him. He did forgive the national debt I acquired taking 10 animals on my last hunt as compensation and sympathy for my loss. I thought that was decent of him since he will be forced to hunt with the disfigured rifle from now on and pay 100 Rand per shot!!!

Perry

George Douglas had many doubles at Reno, some good prices. I think his number is 509 447-4555

Jim

Tonto

I couldn't disagree more with the idea of buying a cheap new double. A double is not only fun but should also be an investment. You will not live long enough to see a new $10,000 double appreciate. Buy a Good used English rifle in a common caliber and you will sell it for more than you paid. A handmade, smoke fitted work of craft. Not a machine made piece of .....

What would you rather have a new Timex or a used Rolex? Even if the Timex keeps better time.

I have the only double rifle I ever want and it is a run of the mill Jefferys, it is also the best double rifle in the world today, end of story....

But, if I wanted a double rifle today I would buy the hunter version from Butch Searcy built to my demensions and specs stockwise..It would be stocked exactly the same as my Jefferys with plenty of drop and a smidgeon of cast off...Caliber would be 500/416..When I put it to my shoulder with my eyes shut, I would expect the sights to line up and be right smak dab on target...

MacD37

I don't think we really disagree. I am not talking about a new Brit or a new Merkel. I am talking about a used Brit vs a new Merkel, Searcy, Douglas or whatever.

A $10,000 new rifle, whatever the brand, is not going to be worth as much as a $10,000 used Brit when you go to sell it. The New rifle will depreciate, like a new car. The Brit will appreciate. No argument there.

You have to get your value out of a new rifle by using it. The used rifle will appriciate sitting in the safe. For a fellow that only will actually use a double 4-5 time in his life to hunt with a used, common caliber, Brit is a much better investment.

This is not a discussion of which is a better rifle but which has more value.

Mickey, I understood your possition, and I know as well that a Britt is a good investment. That wasn't what I was saying. The person that finds a $10K double rifle to be about all he can afford, and also doesn't know how to go about buying a GOOD used Britt, is likely to get burned. All I'm saying is, that particular person is better off buying new! I feel that a person who has only become interested in a double rifle , and the hunting that goes with it,suddenly peaks his intrest,instead of a life time of interest, and knows little about either, doesn't inspire my confidence in his ability do a good job of selecting a real investment in a used Britt!

An acquaintance of mine came to my home a few years ago, with a cased double rifle made by Westley Richards. He was so proud of it and had only paid $11,500 for it. The problem was to him a double rifle was a double rifle, and it was a 500/450. He wanted to know if I had a few rounds so he could shoot it. It killed me to have to tell him it was a black powder 500/450#1 express, an obsolete cartridge, that required another investment of around $500, and a lot of work, to get it shooting, and it still would be only worth around $3000, unless he could tie it to some famous person. Then It might be worth $5000, and was only good for shooting deer size game. Assumeing it was worth the top dollar accorded it by a famous owner, he would have only lost $7000 on the deal. NOW, this guy would have been much better off to have bought a $10K new Merkel, that was chambered for a real cartridge, and one he could hunt Buffalo with, and sell it after with a loss of only around $1000, compared to the $7K he lost on the BRITT!

Like my wife says, "It makes little difference what they are worth, you're not going to sell them anyway!" . This is her opinion, because she looks in my gunroom, and sees doubles I've had for 40 years, and knows I'm not about to sell them.