I have been lurking here for a while. What is the difference between the various flavors of 416 ie. Rem, Rigby,Taylor,Hoffman etc. I am interestd in performance and brass availability.
Thanks, Peter.

Peter,

I haven't shot a 416, but the over riding consensus is 400 gr @ 2400 fps is the load you want, as thats where the bullets perform the best. All of the rounds you mention, excepting the taylor, can achieve that level of performance.

Here is a basic breakdown. The 416 Taylor is a 458 win mag necked down, but realistic max speed with 400's is 2300 fps, unless you use a 26" barrel. This is a simple re-barrel for a 338 or 458 win mag.

One you didn't mention, but that I'm kinda keen on is the 416 Howell. This is the 404 Jeffrey shortened to 2.5" and necked down, shoulder back. It has ~ the same capacity as the 416 rem, and can push 400's 2400+ from a std length action. You can re-barrel a 338 or 458, but may need some minor work to the feed rails.

The 416 Hoffman is the 375 H&H necked up, and will push 400's 2400+. The 416 rem mag is the 8mm rem mag necked up, and same performance as the Hoffman. As I recall, the Hoffman will chamber 416 rem mag ammo.

The 416 rigby is a massive case, and can push 400's 2600+, but the bullets don't behave well at this speed. Due to the size of the case, very few actions can handle it, factory guns are availalbe from CZ and Ruger, and Dakota makes an action that can handle it.

The 416 Weatherby is essentially just a belted 416 rigby, with minor differences in shoulder/neck dimensions, and a slightly larger capacity.

Brass is easily obtained for the 416 rem mag, and 416 rigby, but Rigby brass is much more exspensive. The brass for the wildcats is easily formed. The 416 howell cases can be formed from Remington ultra mag brass, or 404 basic brass. The 416 rem has the least exspensive dies, 416 rigby and weatherby next in line, and the wildcats are steep to outrageous, depending on who makes the dies.

I think the main concern is what action you want to use, then choose the appropriate case. The CZ 416 is the least exspensive route by far, and folks who shoot them have gotten amazing accuracy. With the quarter rib, and 1/2 decent wood, the Ruger is alot of gun for the $.

Paul H
Well said, I need not add any thing.
George

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul H:
Hi Paul,
Good information Paul but there are a few descrepencies. I have a 416 Taylor and with Reloader 15 I'm able to get 2400 ft. per sec with a 24 inch barrel. I also have a 416 Rigby and there are only a few bullets that do not work well at 2600 fps. I've tested the Swift A-Frames, Barnes X and the Trophy Bonded. They all seem to hold together very well. The Hornady 400 grain bullet is a very good choice at the regular 2400 fps velocity.
The Hoffman and Remington are probably the best entry 416 just due to rifle costs, brass costs and magazine capacity. 470 Mbogo

470,

As I've mentioned, I haven't owned or shot any of the 416's. Your taylor seems to be the exception to the rule, as most folks say they can't hit 2400 w/ 400's, not that the game will tell any difference.

While I don't dispute your tests on the 416 bullets, what I've heard from the field is, on occasion, the higher velocities result in eratic bullet performance in game. I have yet to hear the higher speeds result in any noticable increase in killing power.

Personally, I like to be conservative and operate bullets at speeds where they perform most reliably. I doubt I'll ever kill enough game to get those odd occurances, but I like to stack the books in my favor.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul H:
Hi Paul,
That's the problem with terminal ballistics. You just never get to shoot the same animal in the exact same place with the exact bullet path twice. Your 100% on stacking things in you favor and being conservative. 2400 fps has done it for eons and if you hunt and don't just shoot 2400 up close is a wonderful thing.
I've actually reached 2425 fps with my Taylor with Rl 15 after I fire lapped the barrel. It was a heavily compressed load but still didn't show any problems. I really like the Rigby because you can do what any of the others can do with way less pressure except of course the Weatherby. One of the .416 would be perfect for your part of the world.
How have you made out with your .510 mold and casting bullets? 470 Mbogo

Paul H, thanks very much for your detailed reply. It was exactly what I hoped for. Now the followup! I believe that the CZ550 is available in 416 Rigby (expensive brass) what are my options for the 416Rem? I have a Ruger #1 in 45/70, and I love the gun, but I think I need a bolt action (just in case!) and really, the Ruger is not very pleasant to shoot (off the bench). I suspect that none of these are, but ergonomically, perhaps there are better options. Price is also an issue for a gun that will probably spend more time in the safe than out!
Thanks, Peter.

The CZ550 factory stock has a considerable amount of drop at comb. This will have the effect of potentially increasing the preceived recoil. The Ruger cost $500.00 more, but the stock has far less drop.

By the way a 400 grain slug going 2650 fps (my load in my Rigby) does come back with some authority.
Todd E

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter:
Hi Peter,
Don't let the price of the Rigby brass scare you off. I you buy 100 in bulk it will probably last you the next ten or fifteen years if you load it to 2400 ft per sec. If you buy a CZ550 in 416 Rigby try changing the recoil pad to a better quality one. With a scope and mounts loaded to 2400 fps it shouldn't be bad to shoot. With the extra money you save you could buy the brass,dies powder and bullets to get started. 470 Mbogo

Thanks to all for your informative replies. I see a CZ550 in 416 Rigby in my future! As I recollect there was a post not too long ago recommending someone (in Georgia perhaps) who had could get these at a decent price. I will go back and look! Thanks again!
Another satisfied customer!
Peter.

Just to all a little personal experience, I used my Ruger in Africa and killed everything I shot at with one shot. I did handload Swift bullets and some of the shots did peel the bullet to the partition. However, these were handloaded to 2675 and those shots were under 100 yards. I did not shoot any 2400 fps loads but can tell you I would have absolute confidence with 2400fps loads with a premium bullet. I think your best bet is the Ruger for the money. You will "feel" the CS recoil more simply due to stock configuration and weight of the gun, the extra money for the Ruger is well worth it. Good Shooting "Z"

There is not much wrong with the .416 Ruger or CZ. The current CZ's have a decelerator pad, which is about as good as it gets. The Ruger is easier to shoot, recoil wise, because it weighs more than the CZ. I just don't like to carry heavy rifles.

Not that it means much in real life but you can get 4 down in a CZ and maybe 3 in the Ruger, but I forget. I had to put a couple spacers between the trigger guard and the stock to get the CZ to feed with 4 in the magazine. The length of pull on the CZ is about 14" which is too short for me, and I forget what is was on the Ruger.

Any of the .416's are essentially identical. The smaller diameter cases based on the .375 will allow more in a given magazine. They are all romper, stompers recoil wise, in case that is of concern.

Will

470,

I haven't cast any 510 bullets in awhile, my buddy sold his 500 Linebaugh, and I lent the mold to the gunsmith that is building my 500 Jeffrey.

I have been casting lots of 475 bullets though, my buddy and I really like the 480 ruger, and I have a 390 gr LFN mold, and he has a 310 gr LFN. I also traded a signifigant number of cast bullets for my 390, and must have cast at least 1000 of the 390's and 2000 of the 310's by now. We are debating a ~430 gr mold, but the 390's shoot very accurately, and recoil at 1200 fps isn't bad at all. My buddy was pushing them 1350, and the gun had noteably increased recoil off the bench! I don't know that I want to push 430's 1200 fps.