I am a gunsmith at Wild West, This was posted by our machine shop foreman on other forums just to let you know there are decent people here, we like hearing these complaints even less than you like making them. :--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
our apology Posted by Damon Bonds (dbonds@nomadpublishing.net) on Mon Feb 17 19:10:54 2003:
I am the machine shop foreman at Wild West Guns. I am posting this message to relay the thoughts of a few of us here, the "core", if you will, concerning the disdain for our shop, by some of our "would be" patrons, generated by our manager through his mannerisms and shortcomings in relating to the public. It saddens us (the gunsmiths and machinists who work here, who actually care about our craft and the quality of our work)to hear, on a weekly basis, that many people will not patronize our store because of "the a**hole behind the counter". I ran into two ex-customers over the weekend who said they would never return to do business here because of this person and this morning I read 5 messages on another message board expressing this same opinion regarding this person. We want you to know and understand that we DO NOT share his attitude. We know that it is the satisfied and repeat customer who will make our company a success and give back to us the pride of knowing that our work is admired and appreciated by fellow gunlovers. It is sometimes hard to work here because we are also subjected to this lack of courtesy. We choose to work here because Wild West Guns really is a unique and challenging work environment being the only full service custom shop in Alaska. We want to be proud of our work and our time spent with this company, but it's hard as we are constantly reminded of all the lost customers that will never return because of the way they were treated by one employee. With that said, we would like to apologize on behalf of our manager. We are not all bad apples. If any of you would like to do business here, but cannot handle the "attitude up front", please ask to speak to another salesman, Aaron Madole (gunshop foreman), or myself, Damon Bonds (machine shop foreman). We would be happy to talk to you about your projects and will do our best to steer you in the right direction for YOU, not necessarily the most profitable for us, because as I said, we know that it is the satisfied customer that will come back for more and maintain our livelihood. Thank you for your patronage. -the core at Wild West Guns
Posts: 79 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 20 February 2003
Why not dump the arse behind the counter? Why such an attitude, that forces would-be customers to look elsewhere? Is this guy the owner (which is why you can't do nothing about it)?
Another solution, start a new gunsmith shop yourselves. ~~~Suluuq
Whiel I am not one of the complainers, it was for that reason I had my Weatherby work done by someone else. If I had know this I might have passed that individual by and gone to the source. I will see about that in the future.
More good companies have been sent belly up, by the Rotten Stump in the road between the good employees, and the public!
I worked for American Airlines for 31 yrs, most of which was headed up by a man by the name of C.R. Smith. He used to say:
"An airline has only three things, PEOPLE, AIRPLANES, AND SERVICE! If any one of those three are bad you have no airline at all!"
I think this applies to all buisinesses, and there seems to be one part in your company that is broken. This part needs to be replaced with one that works properly! I'm truley sorry for the good employees at Wild West Guns!
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000
As was suggested, start your own shop. There is deffinately a need for a full service shop in the state that does decent work at reasonable prices. Most of the folks I know send their guns outside to have work done, really no reason to do that if there was a good alternative in town.
I haven't been in the shop for several years, and it's been a few more years since then that I've looked at any of the shops work. At the time I was considering having a rifle built, the sample rifles I handled left we with the impression that the work was mediocre, and the prices nearly double what they should have been (when the chambering can't even be stamped straight on the barrel, you wonder what the chamber looks like). As I said, that was 4-5 years ago.
I know Andy Hawk went his own way several years back, and I've heard he keeps quite busy, and that just working out of his garage.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
I've just given up trying to get my work done in AK. I had several bad experiences with various outfits in Anchorage. I had thought of taking some work to Wild West Guns but then I ran into the said "Asshole" at a gun show and that was that. A customer doesn't want to be treated like he is an idiot and doesn't know anything about what wants when speaking to a salesperson. I feel sorry for the rest of the crew at Wid West Guns that have to work with this character.
Posts: 13082 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002
I know a very good gunsmith that lives around the Palmer area. He has built more than a few rifles for me and many people I know while he was living in the Denver area. He got totally fed up with all of the politcal BS that Colorado is putting people in the firearms industry through. He packed up and moved to the Palmer area. His name is Rick Steinhour. I'm at work right now but he gave me one of his new cards before he left town. I'll look up his number if anyone is interested. His work is first rate! Elk Country
PS. Rick is the gunsmith that does all of the work for the Kifaru rifles.
[ 02-21-2003, 00:25: Message edited by: Elk Country ]
Posts: 180 | Location: Northern Colorado, USA | Registered: 26 March 2002
I hear you, I live in Bethel and I take mine into town when I go which is around 4-5 times per year. Give this guy a try:
Accuracy Arms 7151 Candace Circle Anchorage, AK 99507 (907) 346-2304
Mans name is Homer. He is a benchrester and gave my m98/29 Persian a look before he said he'll work on any bolt action. His shop is the candy store no joke. Since then I've had him do a few things and he has always done a good job. He is one of the very few gunshops my wife likes going to when in Anchorage. She was eyeballing all his goodies and asking questions left and right. It was humorous since he was trying to answer mine as well. He then took her into his shop and explained how all the machines worked, how he made a muzzle brake, what barrels looked like before he starts working on them and finally he showed her his specially made front machine rest. He has worked the front elevation screw into a compound screw unit, he said you have to turn the main wheel about 20 or 30 times (I forget) to raise point of impact 1/4" at 100 yards. My wife was amazed. He gave her the full tour. I really appreciated that level of attention.
[ 02-21-2003, 03:22: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]
I sent a Guide Gun to Wild West for an action job, and it came back with the front sight hood missing. I'm still trying to figure out why it would be necessary to remove the front sight hood to do an action job...
However, the job they did on installing and shaping the Decelarator pad was superb.
Hey guys thanks for the support. The reason we can't get rid of the guy behind the counter (long grey hair) is that he is very good with the paperwork, shipping, and at dealling with vendors. I personally wish he would sit in the office and not talk to anyonebut I don't run the place. Also, he has been there longer than anyone else. Some of your complaints have also been with Jim himself, from what I have heard (I have only been there a year)he has mellowed quite a bit with age, from what I have seen he is usually quite friendly with customers although he can have his crabby days. He generally treat us as employees very well. As for starting our own shop, we, as employees get along very well and generally have fun at work. We are a very well equipped shop and have a really good knowledge base as a team. I think it's every gunsmiths' dream to have their own shop eventually but most of us cannot afford it at this time.
As for the missing sight hood, give us a holler and we'll send you one. When we do an action job we dissasemble the gun totally so it probably got misplaced or lost in packing.
Posts: 79 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 20 February 2003
I'll be the odd man out but I like going into WWG's and they do all my work. Kinda pricy but I hate sending my guns outside plus so far I havent had any "bad" work done. I know who you are referring to and he is real cool with me. Every time I go in there he always shows me what you folks are playing with. Oh and by the way that ruger 454 is superb. After being in the military I just cut through the chaff and reralize that thats him, he may not be the best people person in the world but after you get to know him hes not that bad. I know with a business hes not the perfect person behind the counter but I just cut out the BS and tell him what I want.
[ 02-21-2003, 07:33: Message edited by: JoelS ]
Posts: 204 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 06 December 2000
I was in Anchorage a couple of years ago. My brother and I went to all the gunstores we could find. I especially wanted to go to Wild West as I had read about their Co-Pilot. We spent well over an hour in the store looking and handled everything in the store. Everyone was very nice, and seemed to enjoy visiting with us, as we did them. I liked the "plastic" stock they have for the Marlin 45/70. Their concept for a short bbl. powerful lever rifle is a good one. Why else would the Marlin factory start making them. I had a regular Marlin 45/70 [my nephew got it when I went to Doubles, he needed a good pig gun], and my brother has a Guide Gun. The Guide Gun is very handy and I think it shoots better than my long bbl Marlin did. I still prefer my 450 No2 for Cape Buff.
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002
Aaron, regarding the sight hood, how about do this for me instead? I'm thinking about replacing front & rear sights anyway, and I'm torn between your aperure sight and the Ashley. Could you make a measurement of the distance from the top of the receiver to the center of the aperture with the sight at the middle of the elevation range? The Ashley seems high to me, so if yours is lower, that would settle it. If you could, I'd like the measurement for both an 1895 and a 336, if they're different. Do that for me and we'll call it even.
Also - does your sight attach with both screws, or just one? You may be aware that the Ashley only uses one. Thanks.
I shoot benchrest with Homer here in the lower 48 & he has done work for me. He does outstanding work & is very fair on his pricing. Try him you want be sorry.
Posts: 265 | Location: south texas | Registered: 30 November 2001
Thanks for the compliments guys, we don't hear many of them outside of the shop. Ken is very nice to a select few especially if he knows you will spend money.
Joel glad to hear you like the .454, If it's the lightened "wolverine" -http://wildwestguns.com/Pistolsmithing/Wolverine/body_wolverine.html , I designed and built it and own the original, you got the first one I built for the store and I just finished the second. Hopefully we will get in the .45 acp moonclips soon so you can try them in it. They are a blast to shoot in it, makes feel like a .22 and a whole lot cheaper for target than 454 or 45 colt.
Posts: 79 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 20 February 2003
I have talked to Homer and he seems a very knowledgable guy. He only wants to work on what he likes though. I had a Ruger and I can't remember what else that I wanted rebarreled and he wasn't interested. He doesn't seem to be real interested in making the customer happy. Anyway none of this negates anything you said. I'll just keep on looking.
Posts: 13082 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002
Jjohnston, I will measure for you, ours uses both screws and are bulletproof we have NEVER seen one knocked "off" or damaged in the field. They are designed to use the stock front sight height but marlin has changed this a few times and we usually use the appropriate firesight. The 336 model is about 1/16 higher than the 1895.
Posts: 79 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 20 February 2003
Aaron, I didnt buy the 454 but it was shown to me and its slick as crap. I'm not a pistol person but that ruger is making me reconsider. I stopped in there to see the win 1885 takedown and ken had to show me. That wasnt you that saturday was it?
Posts: 204 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 06 December 2000
Thanks how did you do that, I would like to post it on a few of the other A.R. forums and see what people think. I think we are the only ones doing a ligh, handy, double action 454.
Posts: 79 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 20 February 2003
Aaron, I come up twice a year and always stop at the shop. You guys do first rate work. I have however had the same problems you have already adressed. Whenever I tried to get info all I got was grief. And yes Jim has been known to do it too. I will however continue to frequent the shop as long as you put out the quality that you have shown in the past. You might just show all these posts from the various message boards to your boss. Myabe he will take the hint. Lets hope. Oh, and apology accepted.
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002
Mark H- I can turn you on to an excellent gunsmith in the valley,if you like,he is very knowledhable and is also easy to get along with. As far as the quality of work that comes from WWG,I think it is top notch,good products. When you go into a custom gunshop with an idea you have been mulling over and the "guy" behind the counter tells you it is the dumbest thing he has ever heard,well what do you expect? This is exactly why I will never do business at WWG ever again,any way this is a deadhorse.
Posts: 221 | Location: Back in Alaska where I belong | Registered: 22 August 2002
Aaron / Damon - I bitched on the initial thread, not about the rifle/workmanship but about the same people issues as others. You guys hang tough, keep your chins up and keep doing the best quality work possible; tell Jim and Ken? to see about Paxil, an anti-anxiety medication. This may help with their every once in a while bouts of negative thoughts . I am aware how difficult it is dealing with customers that sometimes are challenging, please remember that something brought them into your shop in the first place, they don't just wander in off the street (well, maybe in Spenard they do)- anyway, my only suggestion to further your success is to really listen to what the customer says even if it is off the wall. If it is really a stupid / dangerous / economically unfeasible idea, your next move should be to suggest an alternative keeping in mind that the customer will need to be "sold" on the alternative idea and this is the tough part. Show them why your alternative idea may be better. I don't believe that the customer is always right, but they are still the customer. If the customers idea is not what you think is "right" AND THE CUSTOMER IS INTERRUPTED in trying to describe WHAT HE BELIEVES HE WANTS, then the customer will respond unfavorably to the interruption of his idea, not to your proposed idea. I realize that spending time with customers is just that, spending time, and that is not profitable in its own right however over the long haul, it will pay off in customer loyalty. KMule
Posts: 1300 | Location: Alaska.USA | Registered: 15 January 2002
I have no true complaints about WWG, and the work you have done for me was great, I had my Garand in once, and the only problem was it took almost 3 weeks and the inspection never happened. But the work on my 358 Norma was complete and on time. I look forward to doing buisness with you again.
Posts: 675 | Location: anchorage | Registered: 17 February 2002
Aaron, I've never been to your shop,or even the state it is in,but I have heard SO many bad things about the customer service,that I'll be sure to avoid doing bussiness with your shop at all costs.
You know,one of these days,that person with the long gray hair is going to pull that smart ass stuff with the wrong person and will walk away minus some teeth.I've seen it happen before.
Until your "problem child" is calmed down,you're going to loose a TON of bussiness.I suggest you either find someone to replace him,or sit down and have a LONG talk with him.
quote:Originally posted by Brian M: Aaron, You know,one of these days,that person with the long gray hair is going to pull that smart ass stuff with the wrong person and will walk away minus some teeth.I've seen it happen before. Brian.
This statment brings back some memories growing up in the street.
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
If the jerk behind the counter is the sorry sob that usually talks to customers like they are idiots, usually wears some type of Harley Davidson costume, gray hair and smokes. He is a liability. Get rid of him. I haven't been in there for quite some time because of him. Other shooters are the same way. You guys have lost tons of money because of him, probably much more than you have saved with him doing the paperwork and books.
What happened to Lara?
[ 02-22-2003, 11:38: Message edited by: Yukon Jack ]
Posts: 1508 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 09 August 2002
quote:Originally posted by Yukon Jack: If the jerk behind the counter is the sorry sob that usually talks to customers like they are idiots, usually wears some type of Harley Davidson costume, gray hair and smokes. He is a liability. Get rid of him. I haven't been in there for quite some time because of him. Other shooters are the same way. You guys have lost tons of money because of him, probably much more than you have saved with him doing the paperwork and books.
RG, I don't know who Monte is. I don't know the name of the guy is that talks to the customers like they are brainless idiots. Lara (at least I think that was her name) was very nice, was very informed about firearms, and was a pleasure to look at. I believe she used to shoot competition with a Desert Eagle 50 AE. The man I described knows everything and if anyone disagrees with him or wants anything the slightest bit different is determined by him to be an idiot. He ignores people that come into the shop, berates them and is very unprofessional. A class A jerk. Until he is no longer working there, my business will go elsewhere. It's a shame too. WWG does some really nice work and offers very good products.
Posts: 1508 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 09 August 2002
Yukon Jack... Monte is a troll that gave us major trouble at MarkinTalk last year (he still comes around on occasion). We got the idea he may have worked for them, with the way he insisted WWG had the best products, did the best gunsmithing, etc. And everything WE owned was crap unless it was WWG's stuff. He recommended their stuff to everyone, even when no one asked for info pertaining to WWG's. He rubbed everyone the wrong way from the get-go, supporting WWG's products as if they were the end-all to all our "problems" with other products. The guy described here just gave me a mental picture of Monte, with the way we were all told how Monte is. So I thought I'd ask. It's why I suggested they start a new gunsmith company. Because of him, a bunch of us from MT won't do business with WWG. What really pi$$ed me off about WWG's was the administrator of their forum. At one time I asked if Mr West would be checking his own forum, but my post was deleted (because I called the administrator "the janitor" because he liked to "clean up" (delete) a lot. Topics were deleted left and right, just because the topics didn't pertain to WWG's. I had wanted to ask Mr West some questions, but 'the janitor' thought otherwise. He told us Mr West didn't go to his forum, and hired him to take care of it. A bad move, IMO, especially when he deletes posts requesting Mr West's presence. ~~~Suluuq
Arron - You sound like a good man that takes pride in his work.
I've read all the posts here, on the, "Have you shoot this rifle" and the link to "outdoors" forum you provided.
I think the co-pilot concept is great. I'm looking for a lever gun. I demand a lot from my hunting equipment and prefer to deal with custom shops that can build what I want. I'm also not opposed to paying for quility.
This whole thing makes me wonder were Jim West is? I think if my business was getting this kind of publicity I'd be doing some major damage control. The best product & services are useless if no one will do business with you.
I just can't see giving my hard earned hunting money to a compy that would treat me like yours have treated these folks.
If you ever go out on your own, be sure we know about it.
Posts: 980 | Location: Illinois | Registered: 04 January 2003
I don't have any experience with anyone from Wild West Guns, and from these reports, they definitely have more business than they deserve. I do have an old friend who builds a lot of big-bore lever rifles, Reggie Nonneman in Maryville, Mo. They're not my thing, but he builds a lot of them and learned most of his gunsmithing from John Linebaugh of Cody Wy. He has a website, can't remember what it is- something like leveractions.com, if you search for Nonneman Custom Rifles, it'll pop up. We grew up hunting together and at least you won't have to deal with an attitude to own a nice levergun.
Posts: 2788 | Location: gallatin, mo usa | Registered: 10 March 2001
quote:Originally posted by jstevens: I don't have any experience with anyone from Wild West Guns, and from these reports, they definitely have more business than they deserve. I do have an old friend who builds a lot of big-bore lever rifles, Reggie Nonneman in Maryville, Mo. They're not my thing, but he builds a lot of them and learned most of his gunsmithing from John Linebaugh of Cody Wy. He has a website, can't remember what it is- something like leveractions.com, if you search for Nonneman Custom Rifles, it'll pop up. We grew up hunting together and at least you won't have to deal with an attitude to own a nice levergun.
Dave Clay also builds top notch lever actions. He built me a perfect 50 Alaskan. He has tons of backlog right now due to his high quality work. Here is the link for his website:
quote:Originally posted by Rusty Gunn: Yukon Jack... Monte is a troll that gave us major trouble at MarkinTalk last year (he still comes around on occasion). We got the idea he may have worked for them, with the way he insisted WWG had the best products, did the best gunsmithing, etc. And everything WE owned was crap unless it was WWG's stuff. He recommended their stuff to everyone, even when no one asked for info pertaining to WWG's. He rubbed everyone the wrong way from the get-go, supporting WWG's products as if they were the end-all to all our "problems" with other products. The guy described here just gave me a mental picture of Monte, with the way we were all told how Monte is. So I thought I'd ask. It's why I suggested they start a new gunsmith company. Because of him, a bunch of us from MT won't do business with WWG. What really pi$$ed me off about WWG's was the administrator of their forum. At one time I asked if Mr West would be checking his own forum, but my post was deleted (because I called the administrator "the janitor" because he liked to "clean up" (delete) a lot. Topics were deleted left and right, just because the topics didn't pertain to WWG's. I had wanted to ask Mr West some questions, but 'the janitor' thought otherwise. He told us Mr West didn't go to his forum, and hired him to take care of it. A bad move, IMO, especially when he deletes posts requesting Mr West's presence. ~~~Suluuq
It sounds like Monte is the owner of WWG. I almost sent my lever action to WWG a couple of years ago but I am glad that I did not, as Dave Clay built an awesome 50 Alaskan for me. When I was talking to WWG, they made it sound like they did not need a customer like me so I decided to send it elsewhere and I am glad that I did. As mentioned above, high quality work does not mean anything without a customer.
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
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I'm truley sorry for the good employees at Wild West Guns! ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon}
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Everyone was very nice, and seemed to enjoy visiting with us, as we did them. I liked the "plastic" stock they have for the Marlin 45/70. Their concept for a short bbl. powerful lever rifle is a good one. Why else would the Marlin factory start making them. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
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