I�m about to buy a new rifle in 375 H&H.
I�ve had a long and happy marrige with a ZKK 602 in the same caliber, but it was sold a couple of years ago.
Every cabinet should have a 375 H&H I�ve been told, and I definately support that statement.

I�m considering two rifles, the Ruger M77 RSM and the Winchester M70 Classic Safari Express.
The Ruger has a 23"BBL, the Winchester a 24".
The Ruger weights 10.0 lbs, the Winchester 8.8.
The stocks seems to be more or less the same design, while the Ruger sports a higher quality wood.

Pricewise they end up about the same when scope mounts are added to the price of the Winchester.

What about quality and finish on these two rifles ??
Wich one would you choose, and why ??

You guys are killing me!

SBT,

Sorry to hear of your difficulties... My guess is that it was a bedding issue with your rifle. Not sure if you looked into that possibility or not, but that can definitely cause alot of miseries. It sounds like you tried the new barrel, etc. Some rifles need tinkering before they turn in good performance and of course there's always the occasional lemon that just won't cooperate no matter what you do.

I bought a new Ruger RSM in 375 H&H. I choose it due to its classic safari rifle look. I really liked the quality of the wood and loved the quarter rib.

I immediately replaced the front sight with the lowest one NECG makes as it shot high. I then added a decelerator pad and proceeded to break in the barrel. At this point I wasn't concerned about grouping, just firing and cleaning. During this process I had a couple of misfires. I sent it back to Ruger and they put in a stronger firing pin spring.

Then I tried to sight in the iron sights. The rifle woudn't group. I mounted a new Leupold, but it still wouldn't group. Best I could get was 4" at 100 yards, 2" at 50. I tried five different brands of factory ammo, it made no difference. I thought it was lead build up, but after exhaustive cleaning it still wouldn't group.

Sent it back to Ruger. They put on a new barrel. Same process, but this one wouldn't group any better.

Sent it back to Ruger. They said they had no more barrels and it shot to factory specs - 2" at 50 yards.

I said that wasn't good enough. They refunded my money. Good customer service, but I really wanted that rifle. My wifes Mdl 77 in .270 is a tack driver and reliable.

I loved the look and feel of that gun. I liked shooting it better than my 30-06. If I could find another one that would shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards, I'd buy it.

Pick the one that you like best..both are factory guns and may need some tweeking....

I personally think the Ruger Safari Grade rifles are in a class of their own because of the Intregal quarter rib. barrel band safety, barrel band front sight, M-70 sorta safety...Thats a lot of gun for $1200., the barrel alone on a custom gun would run $2500 at least...

458RugerNo1,
I considered that, but Ruger was emphatic that a bedding job would void the warranty. That may have done the trick, but I wasn't willing to do something that would releave them of their responsibility.

If you guys hear of a "shooter" for sale, I'm all ears.

I bought a .375 H&H Ruger RSM from one of our brother members here a few months ago and have been VERY impressed with it in every way. It's fit and finish are excellent for a factory produced rifle and the wood is beautiful - dark with lots of grain. It's features (quarter rib, express sights, satin wood/bluing, CRF, etc) are all features insisted upon here by veteran members/hunters.

Mine shoots 300gr Hornady RN 2500fps reloads dead-on at all ranges with the express sights. I even got a 3" group at 200 yards WITH THE 200 yd LEAF a month or so ago. With my Leupold 1.5x5 VariX-III I just put 3 rds into a 5/8" group this week at 100 yds.

Recoil is very manageable in this rifle at exactly 10 lbs (unscoped). I do wish it was about a pound lighter, but that's my only complaint and it's a small one at that - it's something I've already gotten used to by carrying it with me afield routinely. Since I live in a rural area this is easy for me to do with jackrabbits and coyotes as my plinking targets.

I give Ruger "two thumbs up" for the RSM. From factory records it appears they make about 100-125 of these rifles per year, so I guess it might fall into the semi-custom category as far as factory rifles go. Personally I think it's a fantastic rifle and it's quickly become THE favorite rifle in my battery. I'm new to the .375 H&H myself, but from what I've seen so far I now understand why it is such an all-time classic round - accurate and recoil is a cream-puff in a rifle of proportionate weight.

In my (sometimes less than) humble opinion.....Ruger is a fine manufacturer of single action handguns. Anything looking like a long gun that has the Ruger label on it is to be avoided.

Winchester makes a very fine bolt action rifle.....and I'd buy their .375 safari rifle in a heartbeat.

I have both. Also, I'm a lefty, which is why I bought a model 70 in .375 even after having a right-handed Ruger .375.



I love the Ruger. It's beautiful. The wood is beautiful. I love the gloss finish, all the custom features. It feeds beautifully. It isn't very accurate with Federal factory ammo or the cheaper Remington ammo. I haven't tried the Win or the Swift AF expensive Remingtons in it. With the Remington cheapies, though, I got 1 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100yds, which would be "good enough". With reloading, though, I was able to find several loads that produced 5 shot groups under 1" and one that grouped under 3/4". Because of the alternating grouping pattern, I'm convinced I probably have a minor bedding problem, but since I can reload around it and even get acceptable accuracy with a common factory load, I'd rather leave the bedding alone and keep the warranty intact. Did I mention the rifle's beautiful, the action's slick, and the feeding is flawless?



But I wanted a left-handed big bore. I actually have two LH model 70's in .375 now. I've only shot one. The other is a replacement gun sent to me after sending in a brand new .338 WM model 70 I bought to be fixed by USRAC's warranty repairs department. It had crooked scope mounting holes and a bent barrel and was unrepairable. Since they no longer made the .338 in LH, they offered me a Sporter LT in any of the available LH Sporter LT calibers. I declined and asked for a .375 Safari Express. USRAC replaced the rifle with the more expensive .375



The model 70 I've shot only with iron sights and during a scope sight in, because the rear bridge of the action is too low and the rounds impact outside the adjustable range of my Leupold. Leupold is sending me some shims, which should correct the apparently common problem. The model 70 shot two pairs very tight in between adjustments at 50 yds. Given that I was in a hurry trying to adjust the scope, I think it has a chance to be pretty accurate. Could be a fluke. I'll let you know once I wring it and its twin out at the range. The actions on both Model 70's are very slick. Very nearly as smooth as the Ruger.



As mentioned, the model 70 is noticeably lighter. The high comb of the stock makes it a little more difficult to shoot with the iron sights, but I think it also reduces felt recoil, as it "feels" about the same as shooting the same loads through the heavier Ruger.



Safety operation on one Winchester is near impossible (yes I cleaned out the inside of the bolt). The other Winchester's safety is relatively smooth. The Ruger is very smooth.



My kids and shooting partners indicated to me that the 1" barrel difference makes a significant difference in muzzle blast.



I think the Ruger is nicer out of the box. If you don't want to have to take it to a gunsmith and spend 1/2 the cost of the rifle in enhancements, this is the nicer rifle. Making it shoot well may or may not require reloading. If the accuracy's unacceptable, Ruger'll fix it or refund your money.



If you're going to rebarrel or send the rifle to a gunsmith for tuning, the Model 70 has lots more aftermarket parts and gunsmiths who have specialized on them. Customer service here is pretty good, too, if a little slow and inflexible. Quality variance is greater.



Steve

I think the Ruger is a little heavy for a 375, therfore I would take the Winchester. In heavier calibers though the Ruger is a lot of gun for the money. Most just need a trigger job and recoil pad and are good to go.

I'm with Mikelravy.



I think the RSM is a little heavy and "thick" for a 375, but if that doesn't put you off it will be a sweetheart to shoot! I have a RSM in 416 Rigby, a buddy has one in 458 Lott and I will be getting one in 458 Lott soon. My 416 is very accurate and my friends Lott shows similar promise.



I think the RSM is like the CZ550 Mag in 375. Both big magnum actions you really don't need in a 375 but are pure pleasure to shoot (my CZ 550 in 375 is just plain easy to shoot). That being said I am sending my Win M70 375 to Mark Penrod for the full meal deal. I will use this Win M70 as my main NA rifle and wanted a trimmer package. Handle both and let you instincts guide you. Also remember that the rifle will need some tuning out of the box, whatever brand you choose.



John

The Ruger is a lot nicer rifle, I have a .416, the fit and finish is miles above the standard 77, but so is the price. Mine shoots 3/4 in. with 400 Noslers at 2530 fps, looks like an African express rifle should.

Thanks for the inputs guys.
I will see if I can try the rifles before I make up my mind.
The chance of possible offline scope mount holes on the M 70 will defenately be checked out.

On my m70 in 375 I purchased recently the holes were fine. I had them redrilled and tapped to 8x40s though on the advice of several on this board.